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lunalum

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[Taking the following definition of "academic intelligence"; "determining factor in one's ability to manage formal school education; the ability to learn, process and repeat information."]

Is this the real definition of academic intelligence? Perhaps it is, but it is very different than what it seems like the term should mean based on the definitions of the two words seperately. Perhaps this definition is S-biased ;)

Academic work is 99% memorization and organization.

What field is this in? Perhaps this could work in very limited fields and in elementary/secondary school. But I don't know what university class is going to not require TONS of abstract thinking. Organization is a huge part of getting the stuff done to get the grade, and there need to be facts memorized first, but college is going to require those facts to be analyzed, criticized, synthesized, connectified, and eventually generated into new ideas. SJs can do this stuff for sure, but I think the NTs have a slight edge in terms of interest here.
 

guesswho

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"In high school, Richard Feynman's (who was a fucking genius) IQ was determined to be 125: high, but "merely respectable" according to biographer Gleick. Feynman later scoffed at psychometric testing."

-Wikipedia

If this isn't proof of how DUMB useless iq tests are then I don't know what is.

This also proves our inability to quantify intelligence.
 

entropie

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I always have to think of the aryan - überhuman when I read genius. Men that would have been cool if we germans had all been genius and the rest of the world not :D
 

entropie

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Ha ! They prolly misspelled it and it should have sounded the aryan untermensch as in "not so clever". Dunno, there's more to it or less :D
 

KDude

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"In high school, Richard Feynman's (who was a fucking genius) IQ was determined to be 125: high, but "merely respectable" according to biographer Gleick. Feynman later scoffed at psychometric testing.".

Yeah, that's always been something I've been amused by. 125 is hardly unintelligent though. Even if he was higher, it's not like that would be out of the realm of his expertise. I like that he was proud of it too.

At one of the weekly Physics Colloquia, Feynman came in carrying an issue of OMNI magazine. They had just interviewed him, and he thought the magazine was kind of cool. Then the issue with him in it appeared on the news stands, a big picture of his face on the cover and the title, "World's Smartest Man". This bothered Feynman, who didn't really like that kind of talk. To add to the weirdness, there was a companion article about the world's smartest woman, someone from MENSA who had scored over 200 on an IQ test. Feynman enjoyed pointing out that his IQ was very modest, like 120-something. Of course, people into puzzles and IQ tests can practice their score up to very high levels, which then means absolutely nothing.

Secondly, people who skyrocket into 180 or something confuse me. There's room for some, but many must be taking some silly facebook test. Marilyn Vos Savant is a 185, for example (I don't know which test though). She's among the highest. All of the sudden, there's little geniuses sprouting up everywhere. Personally, I'm intelligent enough to ask "WTF is going on?"
 

Red Herring

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Talking IQ points without saying which test and which scale is completely useless anyway. If anything, go by percentile (as in "in the 98th percentile").
 

guesswho

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Yeah...I took a test like that, I though it was more accurate than an IQ, since it compared my results with the results of other people. And it didn't claim itself to be an intelligence test. Just a pattern test.
And I love patterns :laugh:
 

miss fortune

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I've always loved standardized tests because it's a wonderful contest between me and the test maker... THE TEST MAKER MUST BE DESTROYED!!!!! :holy:

I think that the reason why some people do well on such tests is BECAUSE they enjoy them... people who feel like they're being judged tend to do worse :yes:
 

Robopop

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I could be biased, but I think NFs over all are the most intelligent. the reason I think NFs are as a whole more intelligent than NTs is because our intuition is less inhibited. NTs can grasp theoretical concepts better than most types, but they often have trouble understanding more subjective concepts and sometimes miss things that NFs pick up immediately. my INTJ friend is a total mastermind at business, economics and strategy, but he misses some of the most obvious things because he has a harder time understanding things until he breaks them down and restructures them into an objective model. he is only recently discovering the limits of what is objectively provable and the value of grasping information subjectively in order to understand it more quickly. however, I believe NTs have the most "practical intelligence" of the archtypes. they are by far the most likely to earn a high income and they have a nack for taking complex theory and applying it in a practical and strategic way. they also tend to be better at focusing intuition and thinking toward understanding a highly leveraged skill, systemizing it and optimizing it so that they become extremely proficient at a profitable skill in a short amount of time.

So basically you equate intelligence with intuition, and since in your view NFs are even more intuitive than NTs, they are more intelligent. NFs often miss things NTs automatically understand too, NFs don't have it both ways, sorry.
 

EcK

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"In high school, Richard Feynman's (who was a fucking genius) IQ was determined to be 125: high, but "merely respectable" according to biographer Gleick. Feynman later scoffed at psychometric testing."

-Wikipedia

If this isn't proof of how DUMB useless iq tests are then I don't know what is.

This also proves our inability to quantify intelligence.

Actually that's biased. His iq is still in the top uh I'm not quite sure. 8-7% or something of the population.
You could say iq is utterly useless if you had a leonardo da vinci type score 70
 

Red Herring

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Actually, it's 5%, if it was on the Wechsler scale :coffee:
 

EcK

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Actually, it's 5%, if it was on the Wechsler scale :coffee:

In a perfect world and assuming normal distribution that should be the value for 2 standard deviations so 130 (the weis being an sd15 test). I think.
edit: my bad, you're right
that's around 1.66 sd so around 10% \ 2 -> 5
 

Red Herring

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No. At SD15 130 = 98th percentile. 125 is in the 95th percentile.

http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/IQtable.aspx

Edit: Strike that, I'm a bit sleep deprived and mixed up two concepts. You are right.

Edit the edit: No, wait. I was right after all. You mixed up SD15 covering 95% in both directions and 130 being the margin for the top 2,1%. I think. My head hurts. i've gotta go to sleep.
 

EcK

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No. At SD15 130 = 98th percentile. 125 is in the 95th percentile.

http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/IQtable.aspx

Edit: Strike that, I'm a bit sleep deprived and mixed up two concepts. You are right.

Edit the edit: No, wait. I was right after all. You mixed up SD15 covering 95% in both directions and 130 being the margin for the top 2,1%. I think. My head hurts. i've gotta go to sleep.
:laugh:
Yeah but I edited my post before you posted your two last posts and said that based on the math and assuming normal distribution(and you don't just take miss bell curve out for a stroll if you don't intend to get all formal ) 1 +2\3 SD would be 10% , but yeah since it's just one direction it's 5

So we agree, actually.
 

entropie

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Aiaiai this gaussian standard curve of distribution is haunted. I had this once in measurement engineering but somehow every other study course has statistics once and there this curve seems to be the holy grail. If I had known that the curve will haunt me for the rest of my life, I actually would have paied attention to the excersise in measurement engineering class :D
 

Xyk

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I'm INTP and in Mensa. I think that speaks for itself...
troll-face-funny.png
 

King sns

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Well, now that this thread reemerged, it gave me an aching to say something. And since I didn't want to do the obvious eyeroll smilie, I actually looked at a few articles on the subject. (Skimmed a couple and read some abstracts, so I guess you can say I'm an expert on the topic. ) It appears to be that N does tend to score higher than S on IQ tests, and P's tend to score higher than J's. If this is true, kind of funny that the best in school all seem to be SJ's. :shrug: So I guess schools are biased towards SJ's and standardized tests are biased towards NP's. Who's smarter? I guess we'll never know. We might as well start talking about religion.
 

strychnine

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Well, now that this thread reemerged, it gave me an aching to say something. And since I didn't want to do the obvious eyeroll smilie, I actually looked at a few articles on the subject. (Skimmed a couple and read some abstracts, so I guess you can say I'm an expert on the topic. ) It appears to be that N does tend to score higher than S on IQ tests, and P's tend to score higher than J's. If this is true, kind of funny that the best in school all seem to be SJ's. :shrug: So I guess schools are biased towards SJ's and standardized tests are biased towards NP's. Who's smarter? I guess we'll never know. We might as well start talking about religion.

I don't find that surprising. There's that line about A students working for C students and I don't think it's purely a myth. My entire education has been memorization-based, save for a few rare courses (plus obviously math and philosophy, the unmemorizables). Of course, SJs are capable of understanding things too, but with high Si and tests that rely on memory work, I don't think there's much incentive to deeply understand unless they're interested in that. So yeah, I'm not surprised that the best Si users do well on tests of Si use (which is, IMO, testing in schools (up to university where I am now)). YMMV depending on where you went to school, what you studied, etc. Perhaps I've just had bad luck in this regard.
 

King sns

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I don't find that surprising. There's that line about A students working for C students and I don't think it's purely a myth. My entire education has been memorization-based, save for a few rare courses (plus obviously math and philosophy, the unmemorizables). Of course, SJs are capable of understanding things too, but with high Si and tests that rely on memory work, I don't think there's much incentive to deeply understand unless they're interested in that. So yeah, I'm not surprised that the best Si users do well on tests of Si use (which is, IMO, testing in schools (up to university where I am now)). YMMV depending on where you went to school, what you studied, etc. Perhaps I've just had bad luck in this regard.

I agree. In my field you see a lot of SJ higher ups too. I guess there are just too many factors to go into intelligence. (Which is why it's like talking about religion in typo c language.)



(New topic.) At least IQ score vs. MBTI type is somewhat easily measured. A lot of people are saying we can't measure intelligence with an IQ test. It's obvious that you can't measure everything in a test, but I still think IQ score has some validity. It may not be a one hundred percent valid way of testing someone's intelligence, but I think it certainly says something about how a person thinks. (Even if it means some poor NP sap wrote the IQ test to try to show that NP's can be more intelligent than SJ's in some ways. :D. Kidding!)
 
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