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Thread: MBTI Type and I.Q.

  1. #891
    ♂ Shameless Array Yamato Nadeshiko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I do find (again, take into account im just one person so i have bias even if i try not to) that IQ seems to me to be related to being 'intelligent'
    But I always saw intelligence as a choice, the willingness to question and understand. I will often/have often called/considered guys with genius level iqs to be idiots and have alot of respect for people who technically are 'not smart' iq wise. I think wisedom is a form of elegance of simplicity, You don't need to be able to create crazy complex ideas to capture the simple and beautiful truths of life.
    . At the end of the day we're all people, all unique. it sounds cliche but it's true.
    This reminds me of something I always thought about in school, which is that people with bad grades aren't dumb, just lazy (or depressed, or some other factor that is inhibiting them or their motivation). In junior high I got terrible grades but when my teachers threatened to hold me back I improved them all to passing grades within a week. I also think all people have the ability to learn any subject, but that it comes much more naturally to some than to others. Like I said before, I suck at math. I'm sure if I tried long and hard enough, and found a good enough teacher that helped me in a way specific to me and my learning needs, I could succeed in math (and would therefore probably improve my IQ score). But since it doesn't come naturally to me, and I don't enjoy it, and don't plan in signing up for a career that involves a lot of it, I find no reason to teach myself any more than the basics, which I guess could be considered laziness. Thus this "laziness" affects my IQ score (lowering it). Very interesting stuff.
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  2. #892
    The Memes Justify the End Array EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21lux View Post
    This reminds me of something I always thought about in school, which is that people with bad grades aren't dumb, just lazy (or depressed, or some other factor that is inhibiting them or their motivation). In junior high I got terrible grades but when my teachers threatened to hold me back I improved them all to passing grades within a week. I also think all people have the ability to learn any subject, but that it comes much more naturally to some than to others. Like I said before, I suck at math. I'm sure if I tried long and hard enough, and found a good enough teacher that helped me in a way specific to me and my learning needs, I could succeed in math (and would therefore probably improve my IQ score). But since it doesn't come naturally to me, and I don't enjoy it, and don't plan in signing up for a career that involves a lot of it, I find no reason to teach myself any more than the basics, which I guess could be considered laziness. Thus this "laziness" affects my IQ score (lowering it). Very interesting stuff.
    Lots of high iq scorers suck at math. Im not sure it influences iq scores so much? I had mine (full official etc test) when i was about 12 and i was dragged there at 6.30/45 am before an exam i hadnt prepared for and while still sick with the flue. So its a bit hazy to me. Sometimes i still wonder what kind of insane perspon starts a consultations so early in the morning.
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  3. #893
    corona Array Hawthorne's Avatar
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    Replaying to main. Not convo in progress. This has probably already been hashed but w/e.

    IQ tests almost exclusively measure mathematical, deductive, and spatial reasoning skills via abstract representations and pattern recognition. Types that are associated with those specific kinds of intelligences and skills will, as a group, outperform those who aren't. Individual variations are a given.

    Reiterating: IQ tests only measure specific intelligences. The same ones that intimidate and are often excessively overvalued because of it. Just like MBTI tests are only capable of giving approximations of cognition style based on a limited set of arbitrarily valuable traits, IQ does the same to determine general intellectual capacity.

    So basically: Old shit, nothing new.

    Interesting thought: Everyone (except nerds) take these tests "cold". I wonder how much studying can improve one's score. 10, 20, 30 points? Can Average Joe go MENSA in a year?
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  4. #894
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinclair View Post
    Replaying to main. Not convo in progress. This has probably already been hashed but w/e.

    IQ tests almost exclusively measure mathematical, deductive, and spatial reasoning skills via abstract representations and pattern recognition. Types that are associated with those specific kinds of intelligences and skills will, as a group, outperform those who aren't. Individual variations are a given.

    Reiterating: IQ tests only measure specific intelligences. The same ones that intimidate and are often excessively overvalued because of it. Just like MBTI tests are only capable of giving approximations of cognition style based on a limited set of arbitrarily valuable traits, IQ does the same to determine general intellectual capacity.

    So basically: Old shit, nothing new.

    Interesting thought: Everyone (except nerds) take these tests "cold". I wonder how much studying can improve one's score. 10, 20, 30 points? Can Average Joe go MENSA in a year?
    Yes, a lot of what comprises IQ is learned. The notion that it is somehow innate is wishful thinking on the part of those who design such tests. In this, it's kind of like MBTI tests, as well: you end up measuring a lot of things that affect your measurements but have nothing to do with what you're trying to measure.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

    It's been known for a while that what one might regard as "average IQ" has been going up for the past century, by about 30 points. The main guess as to why is that we teach abstract reasoning much more broadly now, and abstract reasoning ability is what IQ tests measure, and abstract reasoning is what the S/N axis of MBTI measures ... oh ... wait ...
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    Interestingly enough, I had a conversation on IQ tests last night with my ENTJ friend.

    He said that in high school, he scored a 165 on an IQ test. He did the same later. In no way is he a super genius, but he is a pretty intelligent guy over all. For him, spatial reasoning is extremely easy. He doesn't even think about the questions for a second. The answers are just obvious to him, and he scores 100% in that section, with minimal time required.

    The tests are somewhat limited....
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    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Interestingly enough, I had a conversation on IQ tests last night with my ENTJ friend.

    He said that in high school, he scored a 165 on an IQ test. He did the same later. In no way is he a super genius, but he is a pretty intelligent guy over all. For him, spatial reasoning is extremely easy. He doesn't even think about the questions for a second. The answers are just obvious to him, and he scores 100% in that section, with minimal time required.

    The tests are somewhat limited....
    It REALLY depends on which IQ test.

    For comparison purposes, I find SAT/GRE scores to be much more reliable, since anyone who went to college (or tried to go to college) took those, thus it's a good common ground. It's actually impossible to get a "165" IQ equivalent on SAT/GRE, because in spite of testing millions upon millions of people, the highest scores don't resolve that top 0.1% very well. If your friend did NOT get perfect SAT/GRE scores, then no, there is no chance he is 160 or higher.

    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    It REALLY depends on which IQ test.

    For comparison purposes, I find SAT/GRE scores to be much more reliable, since anyone who went to college (or tried to go to college) took those, thus it's a good common ground. It's actually impossible to get a "165" IQ equivalent on SAT/GRE, because in spite of testing millions upon millions of people, the highest scores don't resolve that top 0.1% very well. If your friend did NOT get perfect SAT/GRE scores, then no, there is no chance he is 160 or higher.

    I completely agree. I was just pointing out how distorted some tests can get. All tests are only as good as they are designed. Some things are really hard to be measured.

    Having natural intelligence means little if you don't develop it. The two other kids I thought were as smart as me in my elementary school grade stopped achieving in middle school. Neither one finished college. Both abused a lot of drugs...... sad things....
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

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  8. #898
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    It REALLY depends on which IQ test.

    For comparison purposes, I find SAT/GRE scores to be much more reliable, since anyone who went to college (or tried to go to college) took those, thus it's a good common ground. It's actually impossible to get a "165" IQ equivalent on SAT/GRE, because in spite of testing millions upon millions of people, the highest scores don't resolve that top 0.1% very well. If your friend did NOT get perfect SAT/GRE scores, then no, there is no chance he is 160 or higher.

    My IQ tests really high, around 150-165 is the range from online and paid tests. I enjoy mensa challenges as long as they are analytical in nature and not how many words can you make out of these letters. graduated in bottom quarter of class and got a 1200 on SATs. I didn't study, I didn't even try in school. It all bored the crap outta. I slept through some classes to the point where the teacher stopped calling on me.

    I also gave up on college when I made as much with an associates as someone with a bachelor's makes out of college. I also progressed just as quick and also worked my way to the lead surrounded by people with bachelors who all think I am a genius and they are mere mortals. Not to mention my degree is in electronics and my field is computer programming. I am completely self taught in programming.
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    My IQ tests really high, around 150-165 is the range from online and paid tests. I enjoy mensa challenges as long as they are analytical in nature and not how many words can you make out of these letters. graduated in bottom quarter of class and got a 1200 on SATs. I didn't study, I didn't even try in school. It all bored the crap outta. I slept through some classes to the point where the teacher stopped calling on me.

    I also gave up on college when I made as much with an associates as someone with a bachelor's makes out of college. I also progressed just as quick and also worked my way to the lead surrounded by people with bachelors who all think I am a genius and they are mere mortals. Not to mention my degree is in electronics and my field is computer programming. I am completely self taught in programming.
    Yeah, SATs are more "reliable" than IQ tests (very large sample size!), but aren't as valid w/r to IQ, as they require an education context to be representative.

    Also, I suspect you're typical of ISTPs in that they tend to be severely underestimated, academically speaking, because their intellectual strengths aren't strictly academic (especially w/r to the SFJ and STJ varieties of academics).
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

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    INxP: I used to be somewhat intelligent. But I've never been as mentally lazy as I am now. I actually fare quite well on IQ tests and maybe even the SAT/ACT compared to the rest of America (whatever that means) but my theoretical brain potential doesn't really appear anywhere else.

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