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Thread: MBTI Type and I.Q.

  1. #851
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Array Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Yes, to me that's what book smart is. It means that what's read takes precedence in life. For example, when I read it goes into a holding cell to be analyzed, judged, processed, and sorted. Everything is read as a grain of salt to be tweaked and played with as I see fit according to life. Book smart people hold things from sources with a higher value then I do. These people tend to try and find books or smart people to learn from because they don't necessarily apply the filtering as the information comes in. Its more seen as fact and applied as fact instead of trying to merge it with the real world. Its not even tied to books, it may be a speaker, a video, etc.

    Edit: I guess its that book smart people try to make life fit the book instead of making the book fit life.
    Well if that's the (very specific) interpretation being taken then yeah, it would be something I wouldn't put much value in either.

    Certainly not just taking everything as written to be true.
    'Consciousness is not simply a sensory-perceptual affair, a matter of mental imagery, as the contents of our mind would have us believe. It is deeply enmeshed with the brain mechanisms that automatically promote action readiness' - Jaak Panksepp

  2. #852
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    After deleting my long drawn out post j decided to settle on this one...

    Being tertiary Ni I understand about playing with patterns. I play with patterns and logic all the time. I am very good at crossing patterns, flipping hem around, and tweaking them. For me its just a means to understand and play with the world though...its not a means to an end.
    Yeah, eventually our tertiary can get pretty good at what it does. For me, that's Fi. But there's a funny thing about the tertiary: when we get good at it, we're about as good as a teenager or young adult who has it as their primary. Those who have our tertiary in the dominant position are way ahead of that.

    I know that when I have issues, I can just talk with certain INFPs who instantly know what I'm getting at, and say something really fucking insightful that makes everything click for me. In Fi terms, I can understand INFPs when they help me process things, but I'm not that quick on the Fi processing myself. Having the guide kind of helps. Similar observations have been made by ENFPs I know about ENTJs.

    I'm not sure how it applies to say, ISTJs vs INFPs or INTJs vs ISTPs, as the necessary N vs S barrier hinders things. The perceiving functions seem to work a bit differently in this regard, so I'm not sure what I can show you about Ni. Suffice it to say that while you play with patterns, I live them. An INTJ "plays" with Fi, and an INFP lives it. The patterns are just there for me, making obscure things obvious to me, and necessarily obscuring that which is obvious to most everyone else. What I think throws a lot of INTJs off is that they think they are "logical", because if they think that, then they don't understand how their mind works and don't have a good idea where their blind spots are.

    I see very similar issues with ISTPs that you do with INTJs, especially the younger ISTPs (who often type themselves as INTJs, which had me confused for a while until I saw their patterns). My point being that it has a lot more to do with maturity than anything else. Some of that maturity varies based on function stack, e.g., tert Fi means a good deal of emotional immaturity well into adulthood, but mostly it's just the degree to which someone understands oneself and others.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  3. #853
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Yeah, eventually our tertiary can get pretty good at what it does. For me, that's Fi. But there's a funny thing about the tertiary: when we get good at it, we're about as good as a teenager or young adult who has it as their primary. Those who have our tertiary in the dominant position are way ahead of that.

    I know that when I have issues, I can just talk with certain INFPs who instantly know what I'm getting at, and say something really fucking insightful that makes everything click for me. In Fi terms, I can understand INFPs when they help me process things, but I'm not that quick on the Fi processing myself. Having the guide kind of helps. Similar observations have been made by ENFPs I know about ENTJs.

    I'm not sure how it applies to say, ISTJs vs INFPs or INTJs vs ISTPs, as the necessary N vs S barrier hinders things. The perceiving functions seem to work a bit differently in this regard, so I'm not sure what I can show you about Ni. Suffice it to say that while you play with patterns, I live them. An INTJ "plays" with Fi, and an INFP lives it. The patterns are just there for me, making obscure things obvious to me, and necessarily obscuring that which is obvious to most everyone else. What I think throws a lot of INTJs off is that they think they are "logical", because if they think that, then they don't understand how their mind works and don't have a good idea where their blind spots are.

    I see very similar issues with ISTPs that you do with INTJs, especially the younger ISTPs (who often type themselves as INTJs, which had me confused for a while until I saw their patterns). My point being that it has a lot more to do with maturity than anything else. Some of that maturity varies based on function stack, e.g., tert Fi means a good deal of emotional immaturity well into adulthood, but mostly it's just the degree to which someone understands oneself and others.
    My dad is INTJ we actually understand each other very well and work very good together. He is the first person I call whenever I need help figuring something out. My GF said we can be like an old couple arguing over how to do something, it never gets beyond small arguing or bickering. We usually can see each others point and meld the ideas together and settle on something. He does the same. He calls me over when he needs a hand and can't figure something out.

    The real difference is that we usually have different goals personally. My P vs his J is really what stands out. The way that is solved is that when we are working on my things what I want is what goes and same with his things. It is a simple way to create a common goal. We both have tremendous amount of respect for each other. We just go about life differently.

    We are both very level headed and grounded people, both hard workers and both use logic and patterns to solve the task at hand. Shooting holes in each others ideas until we come to an agreement or someone says screw it, and we jump in feet first.

    Its funny because he has always been put in a leader position kinda like me, but he is tired of it so when I asked if he wanted to do contract work with me he said yes, but your the manager, not me. I don't want to deal with being the manager...lol
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.

  4. #854
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    ^^ That's cool. It sounds like you and your Dad make a great team, which is pretty awesome all by itself, regardless of type. Yeah, we INTJs tend to get put into leadership positions, but we don't actually want them. We'd rather wander around inside our heads and play with ideas and figure things out.

    The reason we often get put in leadership positions is because while not all INTJs are skilled and competent, when we are skilled and competent, it shows. We also dislike leadership positions because it usually means having to explain things to other people who just don't understand them as quickly as we do. We can do it, but it's tiring. It feels like I'm not getting anything "real" done, because I'm stuck herding cats.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  5. #855
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    ^^ That's cool. It sounds like you and your Dad make a great team, which is pretty awesome all by itself, regardless of type. Yeah, we INTJs tend to get put into leadership positions, but we don't actually want them. We'd rather wander around inside our heads and play with ideas and figure things out.

    The reason we often get put in leadership positions is because while not all INTJs are skilled and competent, when we are skilled and competent, it shows. We also dislike leadership positions because it usually means having to explain things to other people who just don't understand them as quickly as we do. We can do it, but it's tiring. It feels like I'm not getting anything "real" done, because I'm stuck herding cats.
    I am the same way. It hard for me to explain the complex logic that goes into everything I see and do. Having to explain all the logic paths I traversed almost instantly. They really are a combination of logic and jumping patterns. I can either choose which pattern to jump to as I see multiple and being very playful with that I jump to patterns that make somewhat of a sense and just confuse for fun...of course I feel bad if I leave someone confused so I have to unconfuse them I have a huge issue with sarcasm once I really get to understand things and I have been told I don't use it mean, just to play with whats in front of me. Most of my sarcasm is playing with patterns
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.

  6. #856
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    I am the same way. It hard for me to explain the complex logic that goes into everything I see and do. Having to explain all the logic paths I traversed almost instantly. They really are a combination of logic and jumping patterns. I can either choose which pattern to jump to as I see multiple and being very playful with that I jump to patterns that make somewhat of a sense and just confuse for fun...of course I feel bad if I leave someone confused so I have to unconfuse them I have a huge issue with sarcasm once I really get to understand things and I have been told I don't use it mean, just to play with whats in front of me. Most of my sarcasm is playing with patterns
    Actually, unconfusing people is one of the benefits of typology. I just need a starting point (just a function, or an MBTI letter) and work from there. What I do is translate this overall truth I see into something specific and meaningful for that person. The trick is to NOT explain the logic, to NOT explain the insight, but just point at conclusions and results. I can't teach them to think like me, but I can give them a starting point, and let them think things through for themselves from there. Without typology, I tended to go in circles, not quite able to explain a complex idea. With it, I sorta-kinda take a "snapshot" of my idea from their particular type's perspective, and give it to them.

    My experience with this tends to baffle those who think typology is some sort of pseudoscientific phrenology. What they don't understand is that everyone uses a degree of "typology" (not just MBTI and other popular typologies, but also personal typologies based on personal experience) to navigate all aspects of life. It isn't scientific at all, and doesn't pretend to be science. It's just navigating common patterns. If the patterns aren't there, that doesn't "disprove" typology, it just renders it inapplicable in that circumstance.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
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  7. #857
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Actually, unconfusing people is one of the benefits of typology. I just need a starting point (just a function, or an MBTI letter) and work from there. What I do is translate this overall truth I see into something specific and meaningful for that person. The trick is to NOT explain the logic, to NOT explain the insight, but just point at conclusions and results. I can't teach them to think like me, but I can give them a starting point, and let them think things through for themselves from there. Without typology, I tended to go in circles, not quite able to explain a complex idea. With it, I sorta-kinda take a "snapshot" of my idea from their particular type's perspective, and give it to them.

    My experience with this tends to baffle those who think typology is some sort of pseudoscientific phrenology. What they don't understand is that everyone uses a degree of "typology" (not just MBTI and other popular typologies, but also personal typologies based on personal experience) to navigate all aspects of life. It isn't scientific at all, and doesn't pretend to be science. It's just navigating common patterns. If the patterns aren't there, that doesn't "disprove" typology, it just renders it inapplicable in that circumstance.
    Yes, but the pattern should lead you to dig in deeper and fine tune things. Not necessarily be the end all be all. Should lead to more questions and a deeper dive into things, a deeper understanding. That's usually where things go with me. I tend to ask question digging deeper. In regard to explanations, I give them a high 50 foot view and they ask questions so they can understand. What it leads to is an explanation of how everything works together not just the plain logical analysis. How I came to each step and all the knowledge that led me to that conclusion each step of the way. It becomes a long drawn out process which I don't mind explaining, but we don't always have the time for that. The quick and or high level analysis is what leaves them lost. The deeper understanding is what unconfused them though it takes time. Once I accomplish that they usually can follow my way of thinking. I can have an ENFP argue for me because she has listened to all my reasoning and logic along the way, knows the ins and outs, and has all the details. Its like that whole regurgitation thing, but its not necessarily used as knowledge, but discussion to go further and get more info from others. Its used more as a tool for more data, not the primary method of how things are.
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.

  8. #858
    Senior Member Array Eskimo2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Actually, unconfusing people is one of the benefits of typology. I just need a starting point (just a function, or an MBTI letter) and work from there. What I do is translate this overall truth I see into something specific and meaningful for that person. The trick is to NOT explain the logic, to NOT explain the insight, but just point at conclusions and results. I can't teach them to think like me, but I can give them a starting point, and let them think things through for themselves from there. Without typology, I tended to go in circles, not quite able to explain a complex idea. With it, I sorta-kinda take a "snapshot" of my idea from their particular type's perspective, and give it to them.

    My experience with this tends to baffle those who think typology is some sort of pseudoscientific phrenology. What they don't understand is that everyone uses a degree of "typology" (not just MBTI and other popular typologies, but also personal typologies based on personal experience) to navigate all aspects of life. It isn't scientific at all, and doesn't pretend to be science. It's just navigating common patterns. If the patterns aren't there, that doesn't "disprove" typology, it just renders it inapplicable in that circumstance.
    I think that what people tend to do on this site is that they base expectations off of what they have read about particular functions/behavior. Instead of looking at the whole picture, they break down what they do not want to see and reshape it. I am sure that I am guilty of this as well, but it seems that typology has moved from a way of understanding people to a way of separating and categorizing. Which is fine in its own way, but even within the same type there are bound to be varied differences.

    Learning how to navigate and readjust perspectives to fit whoever you are talking to seems important, but what I have seen, is that many seem to suffer from a sort of sense of superiority, and when they do try to adjust their methods of relating they generally tend to put the person who differs from them in a mentally lower position. I am sure that this is unintentional and is most likely derived from unfamiliarity, but it does create cause to be careful.

    It seems to me to be a sort of a learned skill, to be able to detatch yourself enough away from your person so that your own personal judgements do not color any sort of barriers between how you relate to anyone else. You do not view someone as lesser, nor greater than yourself because of how you view how they see the world. Just two separate wholes taking different roads to reach the same destination. Either can choose once they get there to go further, and maybe some are better suited to choose to continue, but the capability to get from point A to point B is there for all. Anyways now I am talking in circles... None of this is meant to be passive aggressive by the way, though it moght come off that way. I think it is just pretty indicative of the human experience to judge, and some of all types are able to learn methods to shove that to the back of their minds.

  9. #859
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    I think that what people tend to do on this site is that they base expectations off of what they have read about particular functions/behavior. Instead of looking at the whole picture, they break down what they do not want to see and reshape it. I am sure that I am guilty of this as well, but it seems that typology has moved from a way of understanding people to a way of separating and categorizing. Which is fine in its own way, but even within the same type there are bound to be varied differences.

    Learning how to navigate and readjust perspectives to fit whoever you are talking to seems important, but what I have seen, is that many seem to suffer from a sort of sense of superiority, and when they do try to adjust their methods of relating they generally tend to put the person who differs from them in a mentally lower position. I am sure that this is unintentional and is most likely derived from unfamiliarity, but it does create cause to be careful.

    It seems to me to be a sort of a learned skill, to be able to detatch yourself enough away from your person so that your own personal judgements do not color any sort of barriers between how you relate to anyone else. You do not view someone as lesser, nor greater than yourself because of how you view how they see the world. Just two separate wholes taking different roads to reach the same destination. Either can choose once they get there to go further, and maybe some are better suited to choose to continue, but the capability to get from point A to point B is there for all. Anyways now I am talking in circles...
    Lol, circles are funny. Can mean you created a solid sustainable cycle or you took wrong turns and ended up back where you began. It all depends on what the goal was
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.

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    Senior Member Array Eskimo2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Lol, circles are funny. Can mean you created a solid sustainable cycle or you took wrong turns and ended up back where you began. It all depends on what the goal was
    Well I suppose if I have to think in circles, I would prefer them to be thready intertwined circles that don't necessarily always take the same path, but interconnect and strengthen the common understanding of the whole. That doesn't always happen though...

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