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  1. #61
    almost nekkid scantilyclad's Avatar
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    I've done alright on IQ tests, but i'm also another Math hating INFP, so my scores are always drastically lower in anything that involves numbers.

    I remember in Algebra 2 i would take a test and think that all the answers would be right, and i would score a 17% on the test. i really hate math.

    and also if any certain type is supposedly smarter, i would say it would be NTs without a doubt. Then NFs, followed by SJs followed by SPs. but its just an opinion. People can be intelligent on so many different levels.
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  2. #62
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    We dont have to include everything synonymous with "good" under the name "intelligence". There are abilities, traits, skills, etc, etc.. these somehow tend to be forgotten in IQ debates.

    If someone has IQ and another one has ability in some skill, what would be improved if the other person's ability would be renamed as intelligence? Nothing. What would be more helpful, would be for people to understand that other things that intelligence matter in where they matter.

    My intuition tells me that we can do a great division between two different types of intelligence, and that the rest of the divisions are rather small compared to the two. Intelligence in well-defined problems, and that in fuzzy issues. Might be wrong, or right.

    If "math" is just another name for "well-defined", then I'd agree with you. I have seen that people tend to use the concept in such manner. Having less interest/ability to solve well-defined problems lowers one's expected IQ score. In my opinion, IQ tests demand both the trait to solve well-defined as well as fuzzy issues (such as, "was this or that a nice thing to do?" or "when you think your feeling about it, does it seem like a good deal?"). In a visual pattern matching test, the patterns usually form a logical sequence, sometimes difficult. But you need the "fuzzy" trait to judge which of the logical explanations is the best and to fill in the sequence.

    I would like that they would develop tests to measure the general intelligence in these fuzzy, or parallel processing tasks. I think it could be sort of a test done in an actual environment with a human element, some actors/research assistants who would behave in a certain way, and the problem would have to be solved by interacting with them.

    So I'd agree that purely well-defined problems dont measure persons capability accurately, but IQ tests don't exactly have problems like that.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Vortex's Avatar
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    Argh! I broke my head taking a couple of those IQ tests on Intelligence Tests that are linked to earlier in the thread. Although I was quite satisfied with the group I was placed in, it took me literally several minutes to figure out the average of my scores. That's certainly not something to do when you're so tired that you need an instruction manual for the remote control.

    Anyway, just chiming in as a fellow 'bad at math' comrade. I love the satisfaction of doing something mathematically 'beautiful' (like calculus and integrals) but mostly when it involves a computer program, so I won't screw it up beyond recognition. Or, alternatively, when the answers are in the back of the book and I don't have to explain the complicated inner working 'logic' of how I ended up at the result

  4. #64
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    I am still not convinced that N's necessarily have higher IQs than S's.

    Intuitives are not more intelligent than Sensors, but they are more intellectual and cerebral. (Ni, in particular, is a function that seeks to understand all aspects of whatever interests them) Intellectuality is merely a subset of intelligence, not the defining trait.

    It's no surprise that the Sensors who frequent these boards are often borderline Intuitives.

  5. #65
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Bah, I'm feeling ornery today, so I'll make another assertion just to keep things going!

    Ns are simply a subset of high IQ Ss that have enough issues that they can be seperated out into their own dysfunctional group. It's just too bad that the disfunctions are all related to being higher IQ, meaning that the top 33% or so of the IQ world ends up being split into function high-IQ Ss and marginally functional Ns.

    HAH!

    (This may or may not be factual. Do not quote this message. Copyright 2007 Angsty Irritated PT Inc.)

  6. #66
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    When you say that Ns are a subset of high IQ [people], pt, are you saying that all Ns are high IQ, or are you just generalizing that they are more likely to belong to that group?

    Cause if it's the former, well, I know more than one N who is not exactly bright...whether in academic terms, common-sense terms, ability to learn things, whatever. You can think in an abstract, unrealistic manner and still not be able to grasp simple concepts.

    Though to be fair, continuing with my anecdotal evidence, the smartest (IQ-wise) people I know are all Ns (I do know some smart Ss as well, they just don't awe me with their insights). It's just that there are some dumb Ns floating around as well, in my experience.

    I'm pretty sure you didn't mean that though...I'm just being argumentative for no good reason.

  7. #67
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    When you say that Ns are a subset of high IQ [people], pt, are you saying that all Ns are high IQ, or are you just generalizing that they are more likely to belong to that group?

    Cause if it's the former, well, I know more than one N who is not exactly bright...whether in academic terms, common-sense terms, ability to learn things, whatever. You can think in an abstract, unrealistic manner and still not be able to grasp simple concepts.

    I'm pretty sure you didn't mean that though...I'm just being argumentative for no good reason.
    Me too! (This is more fun than being serious )

    I did mean that Ns are a subset of high IQ Ss. You can look at it sort of this way - Ns have a SD of about 10 with a mean at 110. Ss have a SD of slightly over 15 with a mean at 100. (Numbers are completely fake and may not reflect reality... for illustration purposes only!).

    For example, somewhere below 90 IQ, Ss make up 85% of the population! However, Ss also make up of 50% of the 110-160 IQ group!

    And of course, IQ can easily not translate too much in RL, giving the impression of a pretty moronic person

    (Hence my previous saying - If someone is an S, they are likely to have a lower IQ than a N. However, if someone is smart, they are as likely to be a S as an N!)

  8. #68
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    And of course, IQ can easily not translate too much in RL, giving the impression of a pretty moronic person

    (Hence my previous saying - If someone is an S, they are likely to have a lower IQ than a N. However, if someone is smart, they are as likely to be a S as an N!)
    I agree with saying that an S is likely to have a lower IQ than an N, mostly because the lowest IQ people would be very likely to be S, which will of course skew the average dramatically, if there's a large enough number of low IQ people. And on the other end, it's plausible (likely?) that most genius-level IQs are Ns. I think it's pretty unrealistic to say that every N has a high IQ though, without exception. Unless you can back that up with data, that is.

    Even if IQ can easily not translate well in RL in general, isn't it directly correlated with your ease of learning concepts? You would not believe how many times I've had to beat some N friends over the head with something until they finally understood it. And I'm hardly a genius.

  9. #69
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I think it's pretty unrealistic to say that every N has a high IQ though, without exception. Unless you can back that up with data, that is.
    Well, it's not a "Every" kind of situation, just distribution. There are still stupid Ns out there. There are just about 6 times more stupid Ss (at the same level) When I say are a subset of high IQ, I don't mean it literally, even in jest... they are just, on average, smarter.

    That part is supported by data - meaning that they are heavily distributed towards the higher end of the IQs and notably absent from the lower end of IQ.

    Even if IQ can easily not translate well in RL in general, isn't it directly correlated with your ease of learning concepts?
    Yup, but contrary to popular belief, concepts has limited value in RL Even a genius can be seriously... uhh... out of touch with reality. For the average person in the average job, social skills and such play an important role. IQ is still critical - a very strong indicator - but unless you are at the extremes, you aren't so needed that they'll put up with you just for your slightly above average IQ.

    You would not believe how many times I've had to beat some N friends over the head with something until they finally understood it. And I'm hardly a genius.
    Yesssss... That's kind of the joke I'm making. Ss that have high IQ seem... balanced. High IQ Ns (which is most of them!) seem... less balanced, heh.

    (Dammit, my time is up and I didn't get a single person to yell at me yet. GRAH.)

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Me too! (This is more fun than being serious )

    I did mean that Ns are a subset of high IQ Ss. You can look at it sort of this way - Ns have a SD of about 10 with a mean at 110. Ss have a SD of slightly over 15 with a mean at 100. (Numbers are completely fake and may not reflect reality... for illustration purposes only!).

    For example, somewhere below 90 IQ, Ss make up 85% of the population! However, Ss also make up of 50% of the 110-160 IQ group!

    And of course, IQ can easily not translate too much in RL, giving the impression of a pretty moronic person

    (Hence my previous saying - If someone is an S, they are likely to have a lower IQ than a N. However, if someone is smart, they are as likely to be a S as an N!)
    I actually think IQ is most meaningful when comparing people of the same type. A lot of people have this impression that if you have a 160+ IQ then you are going to be the next Einstein. No I think to be like Einstein you need a really high IQ and also need to be an INTP. (And also need an interest toward science on top of that.) Bill Clinton is supposed to have around a 170 IQ, but he isn't a scientist. Instead he became president.

    On the other hand I know this older gentleman at my church who I believe is INFP, but I wouldn't be surprised to find his IQ below 100 (maybe below 90). I know he was held back a grade when he was young, and he doesn't seem to be very quick mentally (even for his age he seems a bit slow). On the other hand he has the widest array of skills that I've seen in a person: acting, singing, poetry, plays several instruments, carpentry, truck driving, cooking, etc.... He's quite good at all of these things and probably has several other skills that I haven't seen yet. He has that wide skillset that I usually find in people with strong Ne. (Currently he is writing a book.) I don't think he has a high IQ, in fact I think it's probably below average, but he does the type of things that N's do. Also his personality fits the INFP description.

    If you want to compare the quality of his talents, then it is probably best to compare him to other INFP's. If you compare him to other types then you will find that he is quite ahead high IQ individuals in some resects and far behind them in others. And also who of us isn't like that? Couldn't we all find someone with a higher IQ that we still dominate in certain skills? And also there are people with lower IQ's than us that will dominate us in other skills.

    That is even before you add the idea of multiple intelligences into the mix. Then you get a wide variety even within the same type....
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