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  1. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    When it comes to success, I think emotional intelligence is equally as important as IQ, if not more. I've spent a good amount of time trying to develop EI. And I was actually driven to mbti because I wanted to understand people (strengthen a weakness). ISTP's are good at alot of things, people definitely NOT being one of them lol..... I think my IQ is pretty low for the internet.... it's about 120 (HTG truth too, it is not 110 or 100 or anything else lol). Honestly, I think what is important to me is to be well-rounded.
    I think mine is pretty low for the society. Average or under average except for some parts perhaps. I don't need to take a test to know that I have a clearly unbalanced profile.

    I don't think it determine intelligence properly though, my father has an incredibly high IQ and he's brilliant in some subjects like maths or science but he has no critical thinking. I think aintelligence is nothing without a bit of a critical mind and ability to reflect upon things, doubt them, judge them , think without relying only on past experiences and be both open-minded and narrow-minded.

    IQ is just a relative figure. It's useful when it comes to diagnosing learning difficulties and definitely say something about one's abilities but it doesn't take into consideration everything.

    Skills don't always come with other form of intelligence. I admire my brother for being able to use theories and apply them practically (considering that he's more of a doer than I am) but he lacks critical thinking as well, and I think it's sad (not the righ word but I can't find any other) that many capable people don't develop their thinking and act stupid.

    The fact that the society rely so much on IQ test to define intelligence prove as well that we are in a society which doesn't really think...
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  2. #622
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    LMAO I QUALIFY FOR MENSA

    i really don't mean any offense if any of you are in it and like it, but it has always come off to me as a very navel-gazing sort of affair. the only people i've ever known who were in it were very full of themselves. i feel like if you're actually that smart... that'll show for itself. why would you need to promote it by joining a club?
    I have a friend who is in Mensa and she's in it for the intellectual stimulation. I don't think she's "full of herself". She just enjoys the conversation with other highly intelligent people.
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  3. #623
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    IQ tests tend to penalize creativity. Therefore creative types don't score as highly on IQ tests as more traditional thinkers.
    The IQ score doesn't really say all that much about a person.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  4. #624
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    IQ tests tend to penalize creativity. Therefore creative types don't score as highly on IQ tests as more traditional thinkers.
    The IQ score doesn't really say all that much about a person.
    What about raven's progressive matrices? They seem to require both creativity and logic.
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  5. #625

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    i think i just spelled out, why i feel so stupid

    i don't know my IQ but ....

    but my feeling of what constitutes "average" is not based on numbers of people.

    i can not really get a feel for numbers of people. maybe because i don't get out much.

    okay, i always knew that.

    but what is it based on?

    my feeling is based on the average of qualities that the world i live in is made from. or i should say: is BEING made from. i live in systems and rules designed by (but mostly not operated or applied or interpreted by) people who are or were (half of them are already dead) more intelligent than me. and somewhere - mostly invisibly to me - those systems are being improved right now - much to the dislike of those who usually apply them. i buy products (technical, nutrition and books) invented by people with more intelligence. more importantly i live in a culture, which is not-so-obviously based on the art and philosophy of great mystics. i therefore feel average or even less intelligent than average. whatever influence (as in "contribution", as in "ADDITION") i am going to have on the world: it's below or at best average in it's brilliance. this scale of quality of contribution is different from the "number of people based iQ scale", because some people don't even contribute anything at all and some people sort of "take away" from the standard (which does really have any effect on what qualities exist), so most people don't even count on this scale. and i feel rather close to them. i'm a creative and constructive mind. conforming to a standard (as in having average IQ) is a no-issue to me. contribution matters to me.

    i would feel above average only if it was really hard for me to find something that i don't understand and that I wouldn't know how to improve on.

    apparently i don't 'sufferer' - at least not in many respects - from that dunning-kruger-effekt, according to which many people are too stupid to realize that they are stupid. hm ... i think i do 'suffer' from it in some 'important' respects, though. shit. should not have thought about that *g*
    i am not as creative as i like to think, i mostly fidle with building blocks, that were given to me. ha! doer-ship is ridiculous, from a spiritual perspective anyway. i'll just be thankful for all the brilliant toys in my consciousness.

  6. #626
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    I have a friend who is in Mensa and she's in it for the intellectual stimulation. I don't think she's "full of herself". She just enjoys the conversation with other highly intelligent people.
    highly intelligent as determined by a test made by a bunch of old white guys to determine if schoolchildren do or do not need extra help.

    just saying.

    good for her if she likes it, i guess. it still seems elitist to me, to decide who is smart or not based off this one test, and to make a exclusive club of it. and to think that anyone really has a monopoly on the meaning of actual intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist View Post
    IQ tests tend to penalize creativity. Therefore creative types don't score as highly on IQ tests as more traditional thinkers.
    The IQ score doesn't really say all that much about a person.
    yeah.

  7. #627
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    highly intelligent as determined by a test made by a bunch of old white guys to determine if schoolchildren do or do not need extra help.

    just saying.

    good for her if she likes it, i guess. it still seems elitist to me, to decide who is smart or not based off this one test, and to make a exclusive club of it. and to think that anyone really has a monopoly on the meaning of actual intelligence.



    yeah.
    your posts alone rank you toplevel iq'ed for me

  8. #628
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    highly intelligent as determined by a test made by a bunch of old white guys to determine if schoolchildren do or do not need extra help.

    just saying.

    good for her if she likes it, i guess. it still seems elitist to me, to decide who is smart or not based off this one test, and to make a exclusive club of it. and to think that anyone really has a monopoly on the meaning of actual intelligence.
    Be that as it may, I don't see how it can be denied that it measures a certain TYPE of intelligence/ability/aptitude. So, all who excel at it and grasp those sorts of questions easily and naturally probably think similarly, so will have more in common as far as that goes - more commonality in terms of the type of intelligence.

    I think I posted similar in this thread like... two or three years ago (lol)... but growing up, quite simply, I connected very well with those who tested along the lines I did. Those who had lower test scores just spoke a different intellectual language, so to speak. I don't know how to make that sound any better. I don't know that it's elitist? Seems it's just another group of like-minded individuals, like everything else. You have the drama people, you have the skateboarders, you have the music crowd, you have those who are brilliant in socializing and working with people, and so on. Mensa just addresses another little niche/character trait that can be measured - of that specific sort of intelligence as defined by the tests. Some excel, others don't. Just like some excel at musical composition and are brilliant at that, and other wouldn't be able to breech that.
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  9. #629
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^ sure, it just tells you you're mensa-smart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mensa International
    Membership of Mensa is open to persons who have attained a score within the upper two percent of the general population on an approved intelligence test that has been properly administered and supervised.
    Mensa has three stated purposes: to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity, to encourage research in the nature, characteristics and uses of intelligence, and to promote stimulating intellectual and social opportunities for its members.
    Mensans have ranged in age from 2 [...]
    (lol whut?)

    i guess i just see it like i see most other bigotry. racism, sexism, bias against people of non-hetero orientation, etc. it's not just a group of like-minded individuals, it's an exclusionary group. the skateboarders don't tell the kid who's better at rollerblading to gtfo because he likes to skateboard, too. the drama kids sometimes suck at theater, i've seen that often enough. those who are brilliant at socializing don't come up with the "people who are good with people" club and then make you take an arbitrary test to get in.

    in summary, i think it's elitist because:

    a. mensa presumes to be able to measure intelligence, the nature of which is widely debated within the field of psychology
    b. mensa presumes that what it is measuring is not only intelligence, but it is a good, if not the best, kind of intelligence
    c. mensa excludes those who do not meet their criteria for intelligence from their interactions


    it's funny because if you read the website they pretend to be so egalitarian, talking about all races and ethnicities and political opinions, but that totally overlooks the fact that they're being extremely discriminatory, and they're perpetuating intellectual bigotry, which is what bothers me most of all. how does the person who scores poorly on the intelligence test feel? what if they are highly functional, creative, compassionate, insightful, logical, or possess any other host of attributes that makes them a worthwhile person, as everybody does? mensa denies the worth of people, honestly. that's why it pisses me off. "mensa", despite its word origins, is no open table. it's completely hypocritical.

    regardless, it still seems to me that the idea of intelligence as a single entity is outdated. the MBTI looks towards that, identifying 16 strengths. gardner's multiple intelligences look toward that. mensa might think it's helping people, but what good does it do the world to identify one sort of "intelligence" and define a superior class of people by it? "to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity", the mensa constitution says. what good is it doing? i read on the website that they offer scholarships to and information for gifted students, which is really great, promoting intellectual discrimination on a childhood level. they do research into intelligence. that's good. it's probably intelligence as defined by mensa, otherwise they'd be screwing over their own group, but at least it's still research i guess. still, if this intelligence is really that intelligent, why aren't they getting poor kids out of bad situations? why aren't they solving economic crises? why aren't they smoothing political relations? why aren't they easing world hunger? where is the actual benefit from this exclusive club of "smart" people? i want to see some results, for all the touted intelligence.

    the whole thing reeks of racial supremacy to me.

  10. #630
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Be that as it may, I don't see how it can be denied that it measures a certain TYPE of intelligence/ability/aptitude. So, all who excel at it and grasp those sorts of questions easily and naturally probably think similarly, so will have more in common as far as that goes - more commonality in terms of the type of intelligence.

    I think I posted similar in this thread like... two or three years ago (lol)... but growing up, quite simply, I connected very well with those who tested along the lines I did. Those who had lower test scores just spoke a different intellectual language, so to speak. I don't know how to make that sound any better. I don't know that it's elitist? Seems it's just another group of like-minded individuals, like everything else. You have the drama people, you have the skateboarders, you have the music crowd, you have those who are brilliant in socializing and working with people, and so on. Mensa just addresses another little niche/character trait that can be measured - of that specific sort of intelligence as defined by the tests. Some excel, others don't. Just like some excel at musical composition and are brilliant at that, and other wouldn't be able to breech that.
    Think the problem is that it puts people into categories and this is a problem for every freedom loving person. And the other sad thing is in the real world IQ tests are an entry ticket for you into the highest educations, so its not more only just a test. The basic fear behind this is that on one day we'll have a future like presented in the movie "Gattaca", when your chances to come forward in the world are your abilities directly put in numbers.

    In engineering we tend to seperate between quantitative and qualitative facts of a thing. The former one are qunatifiable that means you can count and label them, the latter one, quality is not quantifiable. And I think when dealing with a human intelligence, you'll always be in the quality dimension, cause there is just no empirical fail-proof way to quantify a human being. And that being so makes life intresting for me; if we were to become only machines, I'd shoot myself.

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