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Thread: MBTI Type and I.Q.

  1. #561
    Senior Member Array Mal12345's Avatar
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    type C

    Sorry, I've never studied DISC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    As for the topic, I admittedly put the 50th percentile iq line arbitrarily dead in the middle. So if an esfp comes along and cries foul, I take the suggestion seriously.

    As for the Thomas blog quote, it says absolutely nothing about esfp iq versus other types. It does not even speak to functions, but merely to letters. The information on the blog clearly has only a very broad application to this problem.
    Yes, it is a problem. And Thomas' blog barely touches upon it. Though Thomas clearly has a deep understanding of the matter, he only touches upon it. He then explains it in a way that the general audience can comprehend. I also take MBTI seriously. Naturally, I take Thomas' blog seriously as well.

    (Edit: End sarcasm. If you do consider functions... this doesn't explain why ESTJ's are amongst the mentally retarded, yet ISTJ's tend to be geniuses.)
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  3. #563
    Senior Member Array Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Yes, it is a problem. And Thomas' blog barely touches upon it. Though Thomas clearly has a deep understanding of the matter, he only touches upon it. He then explains it in a way that the general audience can comprehend. I also take MBTI seriously. Naturally, I take Thomas' blog seriously as well.

    (Edit: End sarcasm. If you do consider functions... this doesn't explain why ESTJ's are amongst the mentally retarded, yet ISTJ's tend to be geniuses.)
    Which type is more likely to focus on classroom book learning (or self-teaching methods), and which type is more likely to disdain all that, perhaps even drop out of school early and go straight into the working world and learn on the job? Which type is more likely to think that learning on the job or from experience is more important than books? Which type is more likely to go into his head and think deeply about things, the introverted SJ or the extraverted SJ?

    The ESTJ I know is completely experience based and ultra-conservative. I don't know his iq but I would place it below average, due to a poor ability to communicate verbally, his writing is extremely choppy and misspelled words are frequent. He puts little effort into thinking about such things but often acts solely on instinct and experience. Spelling and grammar are not as important as getting the job done, after all, you do know what the word says or what he means and that's all that matters, right? Nobody would dare pick on his spelling or speech ability or he might just knock you down. His pride is located elsewhere than irrelevant issues that belong in the classroom and should stay in the classroom.

    There is one factor concerning functions you may not be considering. It is known (and I'm sure you know this) that there is a dominant function and an auxiliary function (along with two lesser functions). The ESTJ typically puts energy into Extraverted Thinking *Te*. (Notice the spelling of "extraverted.") The ISTJ typically devotes more energy to Introverted Sensing *Si*. Therefore, in the latter case, introversion is highly developed, where internal focus is also the secret behind high iq scores. The ISTJ places greater importance on perfecting internal order (the ISTJ's external world is often just a reflection of this drive toward internal order and perfection). The ISTJ, however, is similarly aggressive in his response to criticisms because its still a physical type, but his pride is located more in the intellectual realm (internal order and perfection) and not primarily in getting the job done (external ambition) as with the ESTJ.

    I realize you were thinking that since they are both using SJ functions there shouldn't be any difference, but there is. Introversion versus extraversion makes a world of difference.

  4. #564
    Senior Member Array Mal12345's Avatar
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    At http://sengifted.org/articles_social...calTypes.shtml was written:

    They stated that people showing high scores on introversion (I) and intuition (N) show greater academic aptitude than those who score high on extraversion (E) and sensing (S). While sensing types almost always fall below the mean in IQ, intuition types are mostly above the mean. Indeed, IN types with P or J usually have the top scores in the comparisons of students’ SAT, IQ, and Florida Eighth Grade Test in the manual of the MBTI. However, according to McCauley and Myers, this is not necessarily related to intelligence; rather, it is related to the match between the academic characteristics of IN types and the content of aptitude tests. When gifted adolescents are compared to general high school students according to their preference for intuition, they are more likely to enjoy solving new problems and dislike doing the same thing repeatedly. They also are conclusive, impatient, and interested in complicated situations. They might be more interested in novelty according to the type theory.
    The E/I scale on the MBTI is definitely the weakest category. It is the one most likely to be misdiagnosed by the test, in my experience.

    Maybe you should rethink your personality type? If you're a self-diagnosed ambivert, some of my experience indicates those fall more truly toward the introverted side; but their Sensory score reveals the presence of a physically assertive side to the personality thus biasing the test result toward extraversion. Consider your functions. Are you more oriented on Extraverted Feeling (people person) or Introverted Sensing (focusing on a few deeply intense experiences versus many superficial ones)?

    The reason I ask is that the ESFP in general barely manages to rise above the 50th percentile. What does it mean when you say you're "above average"? How far above? 101, or 125?

    The ESFP I personally know has a professionally tested iq of 63 (no doubt falling a few points below the SD I would use in a study of this issue).

    These tests are based on objectivity but the test-taker is based out of subjectivity. Self-impressions are rarely if ever objective. My first Enneagram test experience revealed this factor to me. Perhaps if more people put some objectivity into taking these tests they wouldn't give up on them as being inaccurate. Admittedly, IQ tests are far more objective than any non-standardized personality test will ever be. The MCMI-III is likely to give you a far more satisfactory result but not as accurately as an IQ test.

  5. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    At http://sengifted.org/articles_social...calTypes.shtml was written:



    The E/I scale on the MBTI is definitely the weakest category. It is the one most likely to be misdiagnosed by the test, in my experience.

    Maybe you should rethink your personality type? If you're a self-diagnosed ambivert, some of my experience indicates those fall more truly toward the introverted side; but their Sensory score reveals the presence of a physically assertive side to the personality thus biasing the test result toward extraversion. Consider your functions. Are you more oriented on Extraverted Feeling (people person) or Introverted Sensing (focusing on a few deeply intense experiences versus many superficial ones)?

    The reason I ask is that the ESFP in general barely manages to rise above the 50% percentile. What does it mean when you say you're "above average"? How far above? 101, or 125?

    The ESFP I personally know has a professionally tested iq of 63 (no doubt falling a few points below the SD I would use in a study of this issue).

    These tests are based on objectivity but the test-taker is based out of subjectivity. Self-impressions are rarely if ever objective. My first Enneagram test experience revealed this factor to me. Perhaps if more people put some objectivity into taking these tests they wouldn't give up on them as being inaccurate. IQ tests are far more objective than any non-standardized personality test will ever be. The MCMI-III is likely to give you a far more satisfactory result but not as accurately as an IQ test.
    No, I'm an ESFP. Extraverted sensing, extraverted thinking, and introverted feeling are my three main functions. (In that order.) My IQ is 135. I am an overall balanced person and can use most of my functions decently.
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  6. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    No, I'm an ESFP. Extraverted sensing, extraverted thinking, and introverted feeling are my three main functions. (In that order.) My IQ is 135. I am an overall balanced person and can use most of my functions decently.
    Congratulations! Technically, 135 is superior, not above average.

    Btw, how do you know your three main functions? Some test I don't know about?

  7. #567
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    I found a cognitive functions test at this site.
    The result fits me perfectly.

    extraverted Sensing (Se) ************************ (24)
    limited use
    introverted Sensing (Si) ************************************* (37.3)
    excellent use
    extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************ (36.1)
    excellent use
    introverted Intuiting (Ni) ******************************* (31)
    good use
    extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************************* (31.2)
    good use
    introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************** (38.2)
    excellent use
    extraverted Feeling (Fe) **************** (16.1)
    limited use
    introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************* (25.9)
    average use

  8. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Congratulations! Technically, 135 is superior, not above average.

    Btw, how do you know your three main functions? Some test I don't know about?
    Yeah. 135 is up there. I don't think I'm some kind of "exception to the rule." Cognitive functions don't say much about speed of thinking IMO. Many of the people I work with in health care are ESF's. I think we should all be scared if any of their IQ's are below 100. I just figured out my functions over the course of time. I'm not really sure, that is my very best guess on function use. When I take those tests, they tend to be around that order as well.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

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    Senior Member Array Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Yeah. 135 is up there. I don't think I'm some kind of "exception to the rule." Cognitive functions don't say much about speed of thinking IMO. Many of the people I work with in health care are ESF's. I think we should all be scared if any of their IQ's are below 100. I just figured out my functions over the course of time. I'm not really sure, that is my very best guess on function use. When I take those tests, they tend to be around that order as well.
    You can always draw the line where you want it; in all honesty, I drew it to make my ESTJ boss, who has tons of money to spend and power to abuse but can't seem to speak a human language or write at a 3rd grade level, seem like a retard, and the horizontal middle looked like a good place.

    (Yes, I know the dangers of criticizing one's boss on the internet. )

    I want to thank you for giving me the idea to search around for the functions test. I've been puzzled about the order of my preferences for years. Thinking in terms of IS/NTP was never quite satisfying. Out of frustration I wanted to make up my own test based on the information in Jung's Psychological Types, but now I see it's already been done.

    I am really astounded to find that my auxiliary type is ENTP. That type always seemed like a distant cousin in typological terms. But now the type description makes excellent sense to me personally. And the heavy S score turned out to be an ISTJ tertiary influence. Now my Enneagram test score makes more sense, as I have always scored a little higher on the Ennea-type One scale. Plus, all three MBTI types are on the lower right (genius) side of the chart. I'm no genius level iq, by the way, I typically score around 135. That means I'm worthless as a ditch-digger, but I might qualify to sweep floors in the physics department - perhaps if they take enough pity on my sub-genius iq score.

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Yeah. 135 is up there. I don't think I'm some kind of "exception to the rule." Cognitive functions don't say much about speed of thinking IMO. Many of the people I work with in health care are ESF's. I think we should all be scared if any of their IQ's are below 100. I just figured out my functions over the course of time. I'm not really sure, that is my very best guess on function use. When I take those tests, they tend to be around that order as well.
    Cognitive functions say absolutely nothing about speed of thinking, but speed of thinking is not usually a factor in iq tests. Sometimes it is. Sometimes lateral thinking is a bigger factor, sometimes it isn't. Some iq tests include more spatial relations problems.

    But if the goals of your primary cognitive processes are internal (introverted), that's absolutely because your strengths lie in the internal realm - the place best suited for high-scoring iq tests. This is because those strengths are the cards you drew the day you were born, therefore those are the cards you are going to lead with throughout your life. And even though you may develop the potentials of the weaker cards life dealt you, the ones you started with will always be favored over those.

    The Thomas blog offers this caveat with regard to the question:

    A person who encountered this post when it was at Liberty Corner claims that “one would expect to see the whole spectrum of intelligences within each personality type.” Well, one does see just that, but high intelligence is skewed toward the five types listed above. I am not claiming that a small subset of MBTI types accounts for all high-IQ persons, nor am I claiming that a small subset of MBTI types is populated entirely by high-IQ persons.
    This principle also applies to politics: just because (for example) you and all your friends voted for Al Gore, that doesn't mean Al Gore should have won the election.

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