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  1. #451
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VictorClimacus View Post
    Some time ago I did encounter statistics about the advantage that a person has if he's I or (and!) N-dominant when it comes to IQ scores. But these came from a couple of blogs, and neither referenced the original source(s). I didn't try too hard to track them down (Maybe you have?), and don't as much doubt they exist as I feel they're still scant evidence for a statistically significant IQ/MBTI relationship regardless.

    My estimation of the correlation (or lack thereof) between the two is based mostly on personal experience. It may qualify as a big, stinking "I know someone who" fallacy, but the fact is that I know as many or more high-IQ sensors than intuits. ESTJ, ISFJ, ISTP, ESTP--these guys are each 130+ and get overlooked for their brainpower nonetheless (largely because of their more down-to-earth personalities). Maybe it's my Fi talking--a subconscious desire to fight for their recognition--but the evidence in my own life, as subjective as it is, points away from strong correlations. The rest of my closest friends--an ENTJ, four INTJs, an ENFP, and an INFJ--may be advantaged over the sensors when it comes to taking IQ tests (and I agree with you that N and I are advantages when it comes to abstract reasoning AND to standardized testing), but their IQs are less exceptional (the INFJ and one of the INTJs may be 130+) than my Sensor friends. The rest fall into the 120-125 range and yet, because of their "techie" interests and skill at strategy games, get more attention within my circle of friends for being the exceptionally smart ones.

    Now maybe I'm hyping up my sensor friends because I, as an intuitive, have only made friends with sensors who stand out farther from "typical" sensors than my intuitive friends do from the center of their bell curve.

    Nonetheless, I need to see solid evidence to change my mind. So far, what I've seen on the web is just kinda sketchy and scarce. A moderate difference between S and N, a slight one between E and I and even a borderline-insignificant one between F and T and perhaps even P and J wouldn't be so surprising. Theoretically it makes sense that the INTJ would be ideally-equipped to tackle the very particular rigors of an IQ test. But even if this is the case, my first reaction is that what we will have uncovered is not evidence of Personality's influence on Intelligence, but a sign that our measuring devices need to be improved so that these two aspects of the individual can be analyzed more independently and with greater clarity. In other words, I am more apt to believe that either intelligence and personality interact in depths and on planes that IQ tests are incapable of measuring, or that the two are in fact independent of each other.

    So...maybe my two cents are more theoretical and perhaps even--gasp!--emotionally-charged than scientific, but the empirical evidence for a correlation seems scant to my eyes anyway. Plus, well, speaking of science, my Te's too low for me to care about finding out as much as arguing my wants

    ...Is that a sign of lesser intelligence?

    I am personally a fan of the Sensors are more intelligent theory aswell. The thing is, it's ultimatively hard for me sometimes to express a thing I have understood my way, in a way understandable for a general audience. I even have problems to understand certain concepts, for example modells in 3D-Geometry, I sometimes need like years to teach myself that a thing is like it is, without me really being able to abstract it. This for example a topic with equations about mechanical stability, for example bar theory. Rigid Frame Statics was one of the most difficult things for me to visualize and I often experience this issue with sometimes rather simple physical or mathematical modells, I just cant grasp because I dont think straight.

    I read on another forum once, where an INTJ and an ENTP had to solve an equation. The entp bended and twisted the equation so he can solve everything for one variable. He caluclated billions of mistakes in it while twisting and turning it for the variables and in the end his solution was wrong. The INTJ just put in the values he already knew, then made the equation more easy and solved it for the wanted variable. I can understand why the entp did that, cause he wanted a big picture equation. One you can use later with other variables aswell to solve them quickly. But what he did forget is that sometimes an equation of this kind is not possible or even not needed and his demand for "doing it with style" just will get into his way. I experience "doing it with style" issues regulary with mathematical problems, I need to solve.

    I doubt a prim Ne is prone to scoring high on IQ. I tend to score around 125 on those online-based ones in english, for what they are worth. But I doubt I have a very high IQ or am uncommonly bright. I am rather uncommonly retarded in many aspects. The only thing I am quite good at, is a good imagination. That goes like a redline thru all my life and has helped me in many different ways and stages of life.

  2. #452
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I even have problems to understand certain concepts, for example modells in 3D-Geometry, I sometimes need like years to teach myself that a thing is like it is, without me really being able to abstract it.
    Just a small objection, I don't believe that being really good at 3D visualization is something sensors are necessarily better at (on average) than intuitives. I know that this kind of "intelligence" is my biggest strength, for example (while OTOH I'm almost never able to solve "linguistic riddles"), while a good number of ISXJs I know can't really understand space in a 3D fashion (but they're better able to understand small-scale details in 3D, like how/if a car can fit in a given parking slot...which I suck at).
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #453
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Ya you're right. Example I've choosen isnt the best. I rather wanted to say that because of the connection sensors can have to the real world they could be better at what they are doing. But I think there are a lot of shades of grey that one needs to apply here so you cant really say that for sure.

    At parking I am the master btw, my girlfriend tends to get a heartattack when I drive high-speed in small parking lots saying afterwards "Told you it would fit" . My gf is not good at it aswell, she's infp so maybe it's a Te thing; with Te saying we really need to check if we'll fit into this parking lot, while my Fe tells me, if it doesnt fit it will only cost 1 or 2 mirrors

  4. #454
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Intelligence is a very difficult thing to define, if not impossible.
    JiNe
    Ti | Fi | Ne | Si | Te | Ni | Fe | Se
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    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

  5. #455
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    ^The widely known definition of intelligence is the relative swiftness in which one understands something based on his own thoughts alone.

  6. #456
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    what he said ?

  7. #457
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    ^The widely known definition of intelligence is the relative swiftness in which one understands something based on his own thoughts alone.
    No, I mean what really makes someone intelligent. Because everyone understands diffferent things with different speeds and all, is someone who understands algebra really well but is useless at mechanics more or less intelligent than someone who understands how a mechanical system operates? And sometimes intelligence is speed, whereas other times it's your ability to retain information etc. It's not easy to measure in any case, because different people will consider different things more intelligent than others.
    JiNe
    Ti | Fi | Ne | Si | Te | Ni | Fe | Se
    Enneagram: 5w4 sx/sp

    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

    "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

  8. #458
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    My intelligence always is driven by insticts. For example I get the most intelligent if I ran out of fire to lit me a cigarette:

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_DanpeJjDg"].[/YOUTUBE]

  9. #459
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RansomedbyFire View Post
    Is there any significant correlation? On average, who is the smartest type?...these two seem to suggest that Feeling and Intuitive types have higher I.Q.s.
    I agree with this...because I'm a freaking genius!
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
    Intuitive (N) 65.63%..........Sensing (S) 34.38%
    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

  10. #460
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^ !

    @ entropie's video... lol... i think Ne doms have a special kind of "troubleshooting" intelligence, we're really good to have around when things don't work like they ought to, and you need a different solution, lol.

    i think the comments about Sensors lately are interesting, and have to agree 100% with holmes. intelligence is a very broad concept... and it seems like most people end up exhibiting balance in terms of abilities. people great interpersonally and spatially are usually not the best mechanically. i like gardner's multiple intelligences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf
    IQ tests only tests a few facets, and those facets favor intuitive people. But I know people that score very high on an IQ test that I don't particularly find intelligent at all, and people that score lower that seem to be much more intelligent to me overall.
    agree. intuitives in particular can be a special kind of reality-retarded. they're like this couple i saw the other day, with a mensa license plate and a giant dent in their side door. :rolli:

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor
    Not to knock feeler IQ but I'd be curious what the findings would reflect at some of the top ten ranked Universities
    i think it's legit to say a Feeler probably isn't going to have as high of an IQ. how is Fi or Fe going to help us on a standardized test? they're not, really. but it's stupid to leave them off measurements of intelligence, imo, because if you don't have good people skills, it's evident that you're lacking a certain kind of understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie
    I doubt a prim Ne is prone to scoring high on IQ.
    i've never taken an IQ test proper, but i've been kicking standardized test ass since elementary school. i think Ne is useful in getting you to an answer - as in, coming up with ideas how you can get there, even if you don't really know - it's just probably going to be the "wrong" way of getting there. fortunately you don't have to bubble in how you solved the problem...

    i dunno how Te would make you better at parking but i correlate too. vis-spat is my highest of the multiple intelligences and i pride myself on my parallel parking skillz.

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