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Thread: MBTI Type and I.Q.

  1. #441
    The Memes Justify the End Array EcK's Avatar
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    If people were all the same we wouldnt need to use any sort of benchmark. Alot of people go on about how we re all different. Past the obvious parts such as genetic and behavioral variations within a species being advantageous, these sort of statements are the sort of equaliterian bullshit that d have everybody be the same because while they all want to be "better", people in average just dont have the balls to be bold about it.
    Its fine to say that someone is taller or runs faster than someone else but somehow everybody is "just different" when it comes to feats of the mind.
    Athletes are different too, yet nobody think it strange to call a person more athletic than another even if the fields are quite different.

    Past things like iq, some people just have brains more able to build complex neural activation paterns and switch faster between them, have a better myelination of their brains, more energy efficient neurons.
    Thats "quantatively better", independantly from any particular qualitative variations in the brain to behavior translation.
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  2. #442
    Nips away your dignity Array Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    If people were all the same we wouldnt need to use any sort of benchmark. Alot of people go on about how we re all different. Past the obvious parts such as genetic and behavioral variations within a species being advantageous, these sort of statements are the sort of equaliterian bullshit that d have everybody be the same because while they all want to be "better", people in average just dont have the balls to be bold about it.
    Its fine to say that someone is taller or runs faster than someone else but somehow everybody is "just different" when it comes to feats of the mind.
    Athletes are different too, yet nobody think it strange to call a person more athletic than another even if the fields are quite different.

    Past things like iq, some people just have brains more able to build complex neural activation paterns and switch faster between them, have a better myelination of their brains, more energy efficient neurons.
    Thats "quantatively better", independantly from any particular qualitative variations in the brain to behavior translation.
    Oh, I don't disagree with you, but I also think intelligence is much more faceted than an IQ tests makes you believe. IQ tests only tests a few facets, and those facets favor intuitive people. But I know people that score very high on an IQ test that I don't particularly find intelligent at all, and people that score lower that seem to be much more intelligent to me overall.
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  3. #443
    The Memes Justify the End Array EcK's Avatar
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    I never said I was the biggest supporter of IQ ever, but dismissing something without giving a better solution is both easy and pointless.
    I agree about the fact that some not-so-brilliant people have higher iq than more 'intelligent (more able to adapt and stuff) people.
    You also have to take into account the fact that people who don't have much to offer past their status as intellectuals for example will tend to , pass the test alot of times and pick the higher score, exagerate their iqs (using the already pumped up score as their norm), use sd 16 or 18 tests instead of sd15 tests, use internet tests... bla bla bla.

    it's a quite standardized test, scores of 'alternative versions' are just as meaningless as scores obtained in different situations than the one first used to set up the base 100 ('first time' test for the majority, increased stress of not being 'confy at home', no possibility to 'do it again after coffee', etc.)
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #444
    Junior Member Array VictorClimacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    about your first statement I'm not saying you're wrong (yes I am) but you're using baseless statements while studies actually show the exact opposite.
    There's a statistically significant correlation between mbti type and iq, especially if you look at S/N. Now statistics are what they are, they don't speak for any individual but express trends in populations.
    nts are, as a group , actually smarter in terms of IQ, but the difference between S and N is way more significant.
    Some time ago I did encounter statistics about the advantage that a person has if he's I or (and!) N-dominant when it comes to IQ scores. But these came from a couple of blogs, and neither referenced the original source(s). I didn't try too hard to track them down (Maybe you have?), and don't as much doubt they exist as I feel they're still scant evidence for a statistically significant IQ/MBTI relationship regardless.

    My estimation of the correlation (or lack thereof) between the two is based mostly on personal experience. It may qualify as a big, stinking "I know someone who" fallacy, but the fact is that I know as many or more high-IQ sensors than intuits. ESTJ, ISFJ, ISTP, ESTP--these guys are each 130+ and get overlooked for their brainpower nonetheless (largely because of their more down-to-earth personalities). Maybe it's my Fi talking--a subconscious desire to fight for their recognition--but the evidence in my own life, as subjective as it is, points away from strong correlations. The rest of my closest friends--an ENTJ, four INTJs, an ENFP, and an INFJ--may be advantaged over the sensors when it comes to taking IQ tests (and I agree with you that N and I are advantages when it comes to abstract reasoning AND to standardized testing), but their IQs are less exceptional (the INFJ and one of the INTJs may be 130+) than my Sensor friends. The rest fall into the 120-125 range and yet, because of their "techie" interests and skill at strategy games, get more attention within my circle of friends for being the exceptionally smart ones.

    Now maybe I'm hyping up my sensor friends because I, as an intuitive, have only made friends with sensors who stand out farther from "typical" sensors than my intuitive friends do from the center of their bell curve.

    Nonetheless, I need to see solid evidence to change my mind. So far, what I've seen on the web is just kinda sketchy and scarce. A moderate difference between S and N, a slight one between E and I and even a borderline-insignificant one between F and T and perhaps even P and J wouldn't be so surprising. Theoretically it makes sense that the INTJ would be ideally-equipped to tackle the very particular rigors of an IQ test. But even if this is the case, my first reaction is that what we will have uncovered is not evidence of Personality's influence on Intelligence, but a sign that our measuring devices need to be improved so that these two aspects of the individual can be analyzed more independently and with greater clarity. In other words, I am more apt to believe that either intelligence and personality interact in depths and on planes that IQ tests are incapable of measuring, or that the two are in fact independent of each other.

    So...maybe my two cents are more theoretical and perhaps even--gasp!--emotionally-charged than scientific, but the empirical evidence for a correlation seems scant to my eyes anyway. Plus, well, speaking of science, my Te's too low for me to care about finding out as much as arguing my wants

    ...Is that a sign of lesser intelligence?

  5. #445
    Senior Member Array animenagai's Avatar
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    This is one majorly long thread, so I'm sorry if this has already been posted.

    Anyone have links to actual data showing each type and their average IQ's? I gave it a search both on normal google and google scholar, but the only stuff I could find had crazy mumbo jumbo psych talk, pretty sure their IQ test results use some other, more fancy system.
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    Occasional Member Array Evan's Avatar
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    I recently looked over my scores on the WAIS-III I took when I was in high school, which made me think about this -- I scored 33 points different in the two subcategories (verbal IQ and performance IQ), and would venture a guess that N/S dichotomy may correlate with those subcategories to some significant extent. (Ti and Te might correlate well too.) It would be interesting to see some statistics on that.

  7. #447
    Senior Member Array edchidna1000's Avatar
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    Psychopaths, not sociopaths. A sociopath is diagnosed from the sociological point of view i.e. antisocial behaviour and can easily be correlated with AsPD. A psychopath is diagnosed from the psychological (soon to be neurological "neuropath") point of view i.e. the traits found in "aggressive narcissism" as well as (to a lesser extent) "social deviancy". The former set of traits do have correlations with high IQ. Many criminals are sociopathic, but a very small minority are psychopathic.

  8. #448
    Senior Member Array guesswho's Avatar
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    In my opinion INTs should score highest on the classic IQ tests. It would make sense wouldn't it?

  9. #449
    Consulting Detective Array Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    In my opinion INTs should score highest on the classic IQ tests. It would make sense wouldn't it?
    Ti is very good at noticing patterns and calculating logical details. So aided by Ne, us INTPs should theoretically be pretty good at theclassic tests that mostly involve patterns and logical problems. But of course any type can be dumb, and we might just prefer Ti but be no good at it.
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  10. #450
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    Not to knock feeler IQ but I'd be curious what the findings would reflect at some of the top ten ranked Universities, instead of at Central Michigan University (somewhere below a global ranking of 1000).

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