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  1. #991

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Yah, this is how I read the question as well.. I know there are many questions we encounter here and in our daily lives that have been constructed with built-in moral pitfalls but I took the question straightforwardly as stated...disclaimers and all. A willingness to reserve judgment.

    As for me...I see no moral dilemma here necessarily. Just a real "if a tree falls in the forest..." feel. If my IQ was the same as Steven Hawking's but I sit around on my ass all day smoking cigarettes do I still deserve entry into the same clubs? Merit is a word I've seen tossed around quite a bit lately. Likewise a rejection of "quantity" over "quality"...but perhaps not here.

    It's absurd to me is all (Poki my morning latte cost more than yours)
    I want my morning latte made by Kato
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    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.
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  2. #992

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaumaturgicTheorist View Post
    Are we allowed to post links from other personality sites? Because if I could do that it would be much easier. However, rather than risk it, I'll just post this.

    This graph shows the MBTI types ranked more or less by IQ. Specifically, by likelihood to be gifted:


    .
    If gifted is an IQ of 130 or more, then only 2% of the population is gifted. That's not many people. I'm not sure how to interpret the chart. Does that mean that about 3.5% of INTPs are gifted vs about 2% for an ENFP vs 1% for an ISTJ. It's not like there are huge amounts of gifted people of any type.

    And I don't believe most the people who say they have an IQ of 140 or 150. I see people post ridiculous IQs online a lot. There just aren't that many people out there who are that smart. Most of us are lumped in the middle.
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  3. #993
    Typology Retiree Yamato Nadeshiko's Avatar
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    why do people care so much about IQ lol idgaf about some theoretical number you're applying to your intelligence if you can't somehow practically apply your "intelligence" to the real world #sensor
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  4. #994
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaumaturgicTheorist View Post
    Are we allowed to post links from other personality sites? Because if I could do that it would be much easier. However, rather than risk it, I'll just post this.

    This graph shows the MBTI types ranked more or less by IQ. Specifically, by likelihood to be gifted:


    INTx are the smartest types, right there in black and white.

    Now, the thing people don't/won't acknowledge is the intelligence and IQ is the main arbiter of a person's worth. Everything about you stems from your intelligence - your capacity for success, your ability to think and have ideas, your emotionality, stability, and sensitivity, even unlikely things like athleticism (I'm trying to find the source where I read this....there was a whole list) The high IQ person is basically a god among men, capable of perfection in anything and everything. Here's a list of all the things positively correlated with IQ. Is it any wonder the average always envy the gifted? Why wouldn't you be frustrated to have someone's existence constantly remind you of how worthless and useless you are, to always know that you are completely and utterly redundant, a living joke in your inherent incompetence?

    Because that's what being a Sensor is. Living with that. S-types are useless, living constantly off the intellectual labor of NTs. Don't believe me? The entire civilized world was built by NT types, Sensors just live in it despite not deserving it or being able to contributing anything relevant to it's improvement or advancement.

    The rather interesting thing is this graph also points out that emotion makes you stupid. NTs don't have much in the way of emotions (though some would claim they instead actually have the strongest, deepest emotions), and they are the most intelligent people in existence. No Feeler has ever accomplished anything of merit, certainly not a Sensor-Feeler (no Sensor-Thinker has ever accomplished anything of merit either, but still). Usually it seems like a stereotype that robotic unemotionality and quasi-sociopathic insensitivity equals intelligence, and it would seem that that's true as well.


    That said, I'm an ISFP with an IQ of 101, by an actual test. Other scores and indicators have implied it's higher, but I doubt that considering my life and now my type.
    What's up with the self-hate?

    or were you being sarcastic?
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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  5. #995
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Yah, this is how I read the question as well.. I know there are many questions we encounter here and in our daily lives that have been constructed with built-in moral pitfalls but I took the question straightforwardly as stated...disclaimers and all. A willingness to reserve judgment.

    As for me...I see no moral dilemma here necessarily. Just a real "if a tree falls in the forest..." feel. If my IQ was the same as Steven Hawking's but I sit around on my ass all day smoking cigarettes do I still deserve entry into the same clubs? Merit is a word I've seen tossed around quite a bit lately. Likewise a rejection of "quantity" over "quality"...but perhaps not here.

    It's absurd to me is all (Poki my morning latte cost more than yours)
    I am up there with steven hawkins, all it means is i think and process crazy fast...so do computers and they have no life. Agree life is about what you do with it, not what you could do with it.

    Attitude trumps IQ when it comes to importance, IMHO. It controls someones life more then IQ could ever dream of
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.

  6. #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    The thing I find really dumb about graphs like these, or any stats, is that we don't even know where the data came from, if it was self reported typing (which we all know leaves something to be desired - and, most high IQ or gifted sensors can easily mistype as N due to how N/S can be presented in tests), if it was typing done by 'professionals' (which also leaves something to be desired, since typing methodology varies from one professional to the next), if it was the 'official' mbti test, if it was a sample size of like 60 people (which is often the case for a lot of mbti studies out there, because there haven't been many studies in the first place...)

    So I find stats extremely unconvincing when it comes to anything tied to mbti.

    I'm also pretty sure I've seen a different IQ/mbti graph, which shows some of the sensing types trending in the top 8.

    But the general PSA I always feel compelled to remind people of in any threads like this is that trends are one thing, individuals are quite another. So to use something like IQ to determine or predict type is not the way you go about it.
    That's honestly the only real possible argument against this kind of data - that and unreliability of MBTI typings. Sure, it's possible, very possible, that the numbers are exaggerated because of cultural stereotypes, false self-beliefs, and just wanting to "sound" smart (hell, I mistyped for almost two years because of that). Could even the exceptionally intelligent be susceptible to recognizing the "right" answers on those sorts of tests, the ones that sound more acceptable?

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    What's up with the self-hate?

    or were you being sarcastic?
    Is it self-hate, or just un-PC realism? People aren't equal. There are superior and inferior people, and the clearest way to differentiate them is with IQ, or some other demonstration of intelligence.

    And no, I'm dead serious.

  7. #997
    Senior Member ThaumaturgicTheorist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protege View Post
    @ThaumaturgicTheorist: Out of pure curiosity, how does the IQ of 101 translate in your life?
    Uh...how much do I want to admit?

    I failed out of college. I'm useless at anything STEM, and I'm not particularly good at anything - lack of experience also makes getting even the simplest job difficult (also contacts and networking...I've been almost reclusive most of my life so it's not that I can't do the work, it's that no one knows me). I get by, but I'm bored. I recently admitted to myself I don't like learning, or care about it, even though I hate my own ignorance.

    Most notably, I notice the difference between me and highly intelligent people is in more...recreational things. I don't have many interests; rather I get a few obsessions at a time and they can last years. I don't bounce around, mastering one subject after another. I'm not naturally a deep thinker - the most basic of philosophical truths had to be told to me via online fora, in order for me to even think along those lines. I sort of absorbed and internalized how to think deeply - I might do it now, but it's not natural. That's the key. I wasn't having existential crises at 5, I started having them at 19. Because of the internet. I mean, I'm happy for the enrichment, but if I were more intelligent I would have figured all this out for myself, been less keen to think my way out of it, and would have been bothered much more by it. I grew up religious and started having my own doubts around 12, rather than disbelieving from the start. I'm gullible as hell and have to be on the lookout for the veracity of things, because I know I'm susceptible to magical thinking, romanticized narratives, and stuff that sounds just plain cool - if I don't research it (or get bitchslapped by the implanted rational part of my brain), I will get sucked in. A person with a higher IQ would never need to be so careful.

    And past academics hint at averageness too (though as far as I'm concerned, 101 is below average): I got decent grades in a godawful school system with basically no effort. I was never severely advanced, never smarter than the teacher, never craved "challenge" or was bothered by lack of it (if anything, I run like hell from "challenges") never did anything so extraordinary people thought I cheated. My only problem was laziness. I did terrible on the SAT despite almost every review book on the market and several classes and tutoring sessions. I was offered a few advanced classes throughout my life, but again, the school system was terrible, so I don't really count it for much.

    If left to my own devices, I would probably have very minimal knowledge of the outer, real world and spend most of my time either on obsessions or fantasy.

    That's all I can think of now.
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  8. #998
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaumaturgicTheorist View Post
    Uh...how much do I want to admit?

    I failed out of college. I'm useless at anything STEM, and I'm not particularly good at anything - lack of experience also makes getting even the simplest job difficult (also contacts and networking...I've been almost reclusive most of my life so it's not that I can't do the work, it's that no one knows me). I get by, but I'm bored. I recently admitted to myself I don't like learning, or care about it, even though I hate my own ignorance.

    Most notably, I notice the difference between me and highly intelligent people is in more...recreational things. I don't have many interests; rather I get a few obsessions at a time and they can last years. I don't bounce around, mastering one subject after another. I'm not naturally a deep thinker - the most basic of philosophical truths had to be told to me via online fora, in order for me to even think along those lines. I sort of absorbed and internalized how to think deeply - I might do it now, but it's not natural. That's the key. I wasn't having existential crises at 5, I started having them at 19. Because of the internet. I mean, I'm happy for the enrichment, but if I were more intelligent I would have figured all this out for myself, been less keen to think my way out of it, and would have been bothered much more by it. I grew up religious and started having my own doubts around 12, rather than disbelieving from the start. I'm gullible as hell and have to be on the lookout for the veracity of things, because I know I'm susceptible to magical thinking, romanticized narratives, and stuff that sounds just plain cool - if I don't research it (or get bitchslapped by the implanted rational part of my brain), I will get sucked in. A person with a higher IQ would never need to be so careful.

    And past academics hint at averageness too (though as far as I'm concerned, 101 is below average): I got decent grades in a godawful school system with basically no effort. I was never severely advanced, never smarter than the teacher, never craved "challenge" or was bothered by lack of it (if anything, I run like hell from "challenges") never did anything so extraordinary people thought I cheated. My only problem was laziness. I did terrible on the SAT despite almost every review book on the market and several classes and tutoring sessions. I was offered a few advanced classes throughout my life, but again, the school system was terrible, so I don't really count it for much.

    If left to my own devices, I would probably have very minimal knowledge of the outer, real world and spend most of my time either on obsessions or fantasy.

    That's all I can think of now.
    Ahhh... thank you for sharing. But why does "average" need to be seen in a negative light? Couldn't one make the argument that it helps you to be relatable to most other people?

    There's a decent chance that I would score "average" on an IQ test, but I don't feel hindered by it, other than feeling a bit insecure about it from time to time.
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  9. #999
    Senior Member ThaumaturgicTheorist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protege View Post
    Ahhh... thank you for sharing. But why does "average" need to be seen in a negative light? Couldn't one make the argument that it helps you to be relatable to most other people?

    There's a decent chance that I would score "average" on an IQ test, but I don't feel hindered by it, other than feeling a bit insecure about it from time to time.
    I've heard that argument before about being able to relate to people...and I don't really buy it for a couple reasons.

    1. Elitism - why wouldn't you want to be one of the best, rather than part of the rabble? Surely the lack of relating is worth knowing you're great? Most people (according to intelligent ones, at least), are stupid, instinctual beasts, trapped in lesser states of development who mindlessly do what they're told by media or authority and can't think for themselves. Why would you want to be one of those?

    2. Personal experience: I've never been great at relating to people. I suck at conversation and the internet is what keeps me from being totally isolated. Sometimes I feel like this is an okay thing, sometimes I'm lonely, and sometimes I wonder if I have some kind of disorder. Because it's not like I can't relate because I'm too smart for everyone - it's never been a matter of "Oh, these shallow people only want to talk about movies when I want to talk about the latest developments in physics!" I dislike small talk as much as the next person - I'd just prefer non-awkward silence! - much of the time I seem to just dislike talk, for some strange reason.
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  10. #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThaumaturgicTheorist View Post
    I failed out of college.
    Well you got me beat, I failed out of high school! In hindsight I'm very glad I didn't have the means to go to college because I think the culture in academia is shitty in general. While my peers in college were racking up debt for mediocre degrees I was already working and getting real experience. Some of them can't even tie their own shoes.

    I'm not particularly good at anything - lack of experience also makes getting even the simplest job difficult (also contacts and networking...I've been almost reclusive most of my life so it's not that I can't do the work, it's that no one knows me). I get by, but I'm bored. I recently admitted to myself I don't like learning, or care about it, even though I hate my own ignorance.
    You sound like you're still very young. You might be relieved or dismayed to know that most early 20s kids don't know what they want nor do they know yet what particular skill set suits them. You already have a leg up on most of those kids though because you're actually concerned about these issues (or why talk about them?) whereas they simply don't care enough to even do that. You don't like learning? Then why the fuck are you making these long posts about an assortment of issues? You must desire some kind of feedback to absorb ( even if its just to piss people off) or why bother?

    I don't have many interests; rather I get a few obsessions at a time and they can last years. I don't bounce around, mastering one subject after another.
    Not everyone is Leo DeVinci. Why such an impossible standard? Do you think Einstein was multi-faceted and mastered everything he touched? The guy sucked in school!

    I'm not naturally a deep thinker - the most basic of philosophical truths had to be told to me via online fora, in order for me to even think along those lines. I sort of absorbed and internalized how to think deeply - I might do it now, but it's not natural. That's the key. I wasn't having existential crises at 5, I started having them at 19. Because of the internet. I mean, I'm happy for the enrichment, but if I were more intelligent I would have figured all this out for myself, been less keen to think my way out of it, and would have been bothered much more by it. I grew up religious and started having my own doubts around 12, rather than disbelieving from the start. I'm gullible as hell and have to be on the lookout for the veracity of things, because I know I'm susceptible to magical thinking, romanticized narratives, and stuff that sounds just plain cool - if I don't research it (or get bitchslapped by the implanted rational part of my brain), I will get sucked in. A person with a higher IQ would never need to be so careful.
    I don't know, you write an awful lot someone who isn't a deep thinker. At least on the subject of your own psychology you go pretty deep, much deeper than I would go. A person who isn't a deep thinker wouldn't bother if they can't post it on twitter.

    And past academics hint at averageness too (though as far as I'm concerned, 101 is below average): I got decent grades in a godawful school system with basically no effort. I was never severely advanced, never smarter than the teacher, never craved "challenge" or was bothered by lack of it (if anything, I run like hell from "challenges") never did anything so extraordinary people thought I cheated. My only problem was laziness. I did terrible on the SAT despite almost every review book on the market and several classes and tutoring sessions. I was offered a few advanced classes throughout my life, but again, the school system was terrible, so I don't really count it for much.
    All of your experiences are true of Einstein too. A lot of it paralleled my own experience. The education offered in the shitty public school I was in offered nothing to light up my mind so I felt pretty dull and sluggish and really didn't give a shit about my grades. The only difference is I ran towards challenges but I didn't consider school important enough to validate. Laziness isn't indicative of low intelligence as far as I know. IQ 101 is average for whites in America ( it's typically between 100-105) and I see nothing wrong with that. Where did you take the IQ test? Please don't say some online quiz

    If left to my own devices, I would probably have very minimal knowledge of the outer, real world and spend most of my time either on obsessions or fantasy.
    Just like most intuitive introverts. You're not particularly a special case here.

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