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Thread: MBTI Type and I.Q.

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    *blinks* I thought IQ of 40 already corresponds to severe mental retardation clinically... that means they can't care for themselves at all and need constant supervision. IQ of below 20?
    A person who is in any mentally retarded range is (or has been) called a cretin.

    Other terms within cretinism:

    A moron is one whose IQ is in between 51 and 70.

    An imbecile is a person whose IQ is in between 26 and 50.

    And an idiot is a person whose IQ is 25 and below. I was five points off, so shoot me.

    Isn't this fascinating?

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    Senior Member Array Blackwater's Avatar
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    Ok, this is a very long thread and I don't have time to read it all. Can anybody please supply me with the study that supposedly documents that there are more average to low IQ sensers than there are average to low IQ intuitards? Via PM, please
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    Ok, this is a very long thread and I don't have time to read it all. Can anybody please supply me with the study that supposedly documents that there are more average to low IQ sensers than there are average to low IQ intuitards? Via PM, please
    PM as in Public Message. I'd love to know this, too.

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    Senior Member Array ptgatsby's Avatar
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    The one normally being referred to is probably;

    The relationship of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) to IQ level and the fluid and crystallized IQ discrepancy on the Kaufman Adolescent and Adult Intelligence Test (KAIT).

    (Same I referred you to in http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/52087-post19.html )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    A person who is in any mentally retarded range is (or has been) called a cretin.

    Other terms within cretinism:

    A moron is one whose IQ is in between 51 and 70.

    An imbecile is a person whose IQ is in between 26 and 50.

    And an idiot is a person whose IQ is 25 and below. I was five points off, so shoot me.

    Isn't this fascinating?
    Actually, an idiot is typically referred to a man with an apparent social disease, like epilepsy or tourette's. A moron is an individual who don't understand social cues, like a racist cop who feels big around others when he has no real social power; an imbecile is an uneducated person who is only aware of his own culture within a 20 mile radius.

    Hope that clarifies your understanding of the Bell Curve.

  6. #96
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    From the link on PT's thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    ...
    The thing to note, for those that aren't able to read it, is that it is more accurate to say that Ss compose a large percentage of lower IQs than Ns, not that Ns are "smarter"... although they are significantly over represented.

    This is another one of those data problems... it is correct to say that if you take a random N and a random S, the N is very likely to be smarter than the S. However, if you take a random smart person, they are not significantly more likely to be a N than a S (about 50/50, despite the 30/70 mix).
    ...
    Correct me if I'm wrong here:
    If there are more S's in the lower IQ's, then the N's would have to be in the higher IQ's, which the study says is not the case. So to make the numbers work, for instance:
    Half of all people have IQ's in the top 50%, and half of these are N's, and half are S's. This is also true of the bottom half, except 3/4 of the S's in the lower half (so 3/8 of all S's total) are in the lowest 25%, and only 1/4 of N's in the lowest half are in the lowest 25% (so 1/8 of all N's total).
    Assuming you can sort through and understand my confusing scenario, this doesn't seem likely. So N's are 30% of the population and S's are 70%, and according to PT "...if you take a random smart person, they are not significantly more likely to be a N than a S...".
    Does this mean?:
    If you were to take a sample of all the people in the top 50% for IQ, half would be N's and half S's. So 1/4 of the entire population in the top half are N's, and only 30% of the pop. are N's, then that would mean 5/6 of all N's are in the top half, and only 1/6 of all N's are in the lower half.

    I would like to see the original study, this is all very interesting.
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    Senior Member Array ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warick View Post
    I would like to see the original study, this is all very interesting.
    I can't post the study due to copyright restrictions, but I think this falls under fair use (And I hope this works )




    Hey, not bad!

    Note that CAPT has other studies that don't agree entirely with this, blah blah. There isn't a lot of research done with MBTI + IQ in the open field... so... YMMV.

    For your specific questions;



    Half of all people have IQ's in the top 50%, and half of these are N's, and half are S's. This is also true of the bottom half, except 3/4 of the S's in the lower half (so 3/8 of all S's total) are in the lowest 25%, and only 1/4 of N's in the lowest half are in the lowest 25% (so 1/8 of all N's total).


    That would be roughly correct, although it wouldn't be 50/50 at IQ 100 (probably about 60/40 S/N). As above, about 85% of 89 IQ and lower are Ss, but it's an even split above 110.



    If you were to take a sample of all the people in the top 50% for IQ, half would be N's and half S's. So 1/4 of the entire population in the top half are N's, and only 30% of the pop. are N's, then that would mean 5/6 of all N's are in the top half, and only 1/6 of all N's are in the lower half.


    Top 25% in this case, half are Ns and Ss. Essentially, if this was normalised correctly, 12.5% of the population would be N and IQ>110... and 12.5% of the population would be S and IQ>110.

    The sample is somewhat unevenly spread among IQ and N/S, so it's better to look at each as it's own set rather than relate it to the general population.
    Last edited by ptgatsby; 01-21-2008 at 12:17 PM.

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    4x9 Array cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    That would be roughly correct, although it wouldn't be 50/50 at IQ 100 (probably about 60/40 S/N). As above, about 85% of 89 IQ and lower are Ss, but it's an even split above 110.
    I'll have to trust you on all of the stats!! No time/desire to delve into them too deeply!! :-)

    I just have a general question...just thinking out loud... how *would* one determine whether someone was an S or N, say with IQ's of 75 or lower??

    I ask, because last night I was thinking about a former coworker/friend who is part of a Lifeworks program, which places adults with learning disabilities, or who are marginally retarded, into the workforce. This woman is someone I've gotten to know fairly well, and I'm quite surprised by some of the insights she has, and her ability to follow more of your emotional/social type conversations, and participate, and empathize. She's actually quite...awesome. Intellectually, she is a higher functioning person, and once she learns how to do a certain task/basic office work, she is quite good at it. Her emotions/way of communicating, though, remind me of someone in 7th or 8th grade, though -- but again, she can be quite insightful. I'm certain she's IxxJ, and I think IxFJ, but there's no way I feel I can 'guess' the S/N.

    If I were to give her the mbti test (which I never would, because I see no need to, and I don't want to make her uncomfortable), I don't think she'd be able to answer all of the questions, because she wouldn't know what the word 'abstract' meant, for example, and would be confused by many of the questions. And I'm not sure she has the ability to think abstractly in the way we talk about it on this site - but she very well might, she just doesn't verbalize it, as she has trouble sometimes explaining what she's thinking. And I don't mean to sound insensitive, I'm just throwing some of my thoughts out there.

    Basically - how would we know an N vs an S at the lower IQ's anyway?? Do N and S become meaningless at the lower IQ's??

    I read somewhere that in human development, the N/S and T/F traits don't necessarily even start surfacing until later years - so as a toddler, you might only reliably be able to type E/I X X J/P.

    Would those with lower IQ's (as in, those needing some sort of assistance in the real world) even be at the developmental point (for lack of a better term) where you can even know S/N and F/T?? I know absolutely nothing of this subject, so would be curious to hear from those who actually know what they're talking about, regarding adults with learning disabilities/brain development/etc - and please correct any completely inaccurate/ignorant things I might be saying. Again, they're just my questions/thoughts.

    I know this is a delicate subject - hopefully I don't offend anyone. I'm just throwing some of my weird musings out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    Basically - how would we know an N vs an S at the lower IQ's anyway??
    Good question... and I don't know. I would think that below 60 or so it would be impossible to properly administer MBTI... but I haven't ever dealt with people lower than that so I have no idea.

    Chances are the division (40 / 160) is the floor and ceiling of the KAIT (I haven't checked). Since it works out to roughly 50% in the middle and 25% above and below, it was probably chosen just on that division.

    (The other questions are hard for me to answer within MBTI )

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    Thanks for the reference PT.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    Basically - how would we know an N vs an S at the lower IQ's anyway?? Do N and S become meaningless at the lower IQ's??
    I would imagine that even if we couldn't administer a formal test, that a psychologist that does write them could give them an oral ad hoc test and get a rough gauge of where they were at.
    I'm not being critical, I'm just trying to make you a better person.

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