Introverted ENTPs

[substitute]

My INFJ gets pissed sometimes, cuz he'll be telling me about a story or his day, at work, and I interrupt, "Is is out of the ordinary? Is there a point to this story you're aiming to illustrate? Did you get some particular insight through this occurance? Something exciting happen?"

"No, just telling you what happened"

"Okay, don't bother telling me because I will be too bored to listen."

I detest idle chatter, unless it's the idle/wacky/weird association kind. And, I may come off 'not people-person liking' for it, sometimes. But, I can totally fake interest if I am aiming for means to an end, though.

Whilst I relate to that and it's my natural inclination, I have learned in the last few years that there can be a point to pretty much everything if you're willing to notice it...

What I mean is, though this guy says he's just telling you what happened, the fact that he's telling you it, the way he tells it, what aspects of it he chooses to tell you and the way he responds to your comments, tells you something about him. It's one of those 'little things' uh, things.

For example, I used to hate Facebook cos my family would make these threads in my inbox with a bunch of people included in them, and they'd just talk about any old shit, mostly mundane stuff, talking about their everyday lives. Stuff like 'I got some new green cushions today, they go so nicely with my sofa' and 'I'm having beef pie tonight, yummy!' and I'd just yawn and roll my eyes and figure I had nothing to add but sarcastic comments about how exciting it all was, resisting which, I said nothing.

But then it occurred to me over a period of time that this is how people stay in touch. I mean, some of these family members live in other countries to me, and I realized I'd quite lost touch with them. I had no idea what was going on in their lives, what their concerns were, where they were at or whatever, cos I didn't figure it was worth making the effort to talk to them unless we had earth shatteringly fascinating stuff to talk about. So they didn't have a clue about my life either, then I'd complain that I felt alone because, when the time came when I wanted to talk to someone when things did start to get 'interesting' in my life, I found there wasn't anyone I could talk to who fully understood the situation, you know, who'd been there through the run up and knew what my life was like in general.

Meh, anyway, I figured that I shouldn't really turn my nose up at these 'little things', cos they're what, when placed back to back, make up the general scope of most people's lives, and they accumulate to create situations, and subtly alter their personalities as they grow and stuff through it, that sorta thing. I mean you can notice a slight shift in a person's way of thinking through a change in the types of aspects they choose to tell you about, of the introduction of a new pot plant to their office.

 

[ajblaise]

I think these "introverted" ENTPs are just social pariahs that no one wants to be around.

 

[thisGuy]

Whilst I relate to that and it's my natural inclination, I have learned in the last few years that there can be a point to pretty much everything if you're willing to notice it...

What I mean is, though this guy says he's just telling you what happened, the fact that he's telling you it, the way he tells it, what aspects of it he chooses to tell you and the way he responds to your comments, tells you something about him. It's one of those 'little things' uh, things.

For example, I used to hate Facebook cos my family would make these threads in my inbox with a bunch of people included in them, and they'd just talk about any old shit, mostly mundane stuff, talking about their everyday lives. Stuff like 'I got some new green cushions today, they go so nicely with my sofa' and 'I'm having beef pie tonight, yummy!' and I'd just yawn and roll my eyes and figure I had nothing to add but sarcastic comments about how exciting it all was, resisting which, I said nothing.

But then it occurred to me over a period of time that this is how people stay in touch. I mean, some of these family members live in other countries to me, and I realized I'd quite lost touch with them. I had no idea what was going on in their lives, what their concerns were, where they were at or whatever, cos I didn't figure it was worth making the effort to talk to them unless we had earth shatteringly fascinating stuff to talk about. So they didn't have a clue about my life either, then I'd complain that I felt alone because, when the time came when I wanted to talk to someone when things did start to get 'interesting' in my life, I found there wasn't anyone I could talk to who fully understood the situation, you know, who'd been there through the run up and knew what my life was like in general.

Meh, anyway, I figured that I shouldn't really turn my nose up at these 'little things', cos they're what, when placed back to back, make up the general scope of most people's lives, and they accumulate to create situations, and subtly alter their personalities as they grow and stuff through it, that sorta thing. I mean you can notice a slight shift in a person's way of thinking through a change in the types of aspects they choose to tell you about, of the introduction of a new pot plant to their office.

i reached the same conclusions except i came to it trying to find a thing or two about humility...cant deny the fact that you still get bored to death though

 

[Qre:us]

Whilst I relate to that and it's my natural inclination, I have learned in the last few years that there can be a point to pretty much everything if you're willing to notice it...

What I mean is, though this guy says he's just telling you what happened, the fact that he's telling you it, the way he tells it, what aspects of it he chooses to tell you and the way he responds to your comments, tells you something about him. It's one of those 'little things' uh, things.

Yeah, two of my best friends are ESFJ and xSxx. That is one way they quantify 'care'. If you listen to their 'little things'. Like, with the xSxx, listening to her work issues, and she has a habit of being very, very, very, very detailed, starting from the start, to every little nuance thing that a person did or said, right until the end.

I usually find motivation to 'listen' by creating a 'motive'. That Ne-find-connection-relevance-in-everything. Whether it be figuring out motivation and personality quirks of the people she works with, in order to better advise her on how to 'play' to each person, or, helping her figure out loopholes to work around these characters and situations.

The difference is, I'm very good at figuring out what people are thinking, even if they do not voice it. So, I know that when I talk about *my* stuff, like 'weird' theories, or, when I discuss my work, which is more about 'what ifs'/concept driven, I know that my xSxx, and, even ESFJ (who even admits that she tunes people out) are not really interested and 'pretending'. And, I can't understand the merit in pretend, esp. if the main reason is social etiquette. And, so I then wrap up my story as fast as possible because I can sympathize with that kind of boredom.

I just sometimes get petulant because although I shift my behaviour to accomodate others (esp. cuz they don't ask for it, but, I pick up on it)...I don't get the same courtesy back, and they don't know that I gave them the courtesy in the first place. So, I just sometimes go into the "fuck it, I'm zoning them out" phase. All really comes down to respect for that person on the other end.

Another reason I force myself to listen is because it allows me to plump up my databank of the characters around me (you never know if/when a kernal of information that seemingly is trite, can come in handy down the road). It helps me nagivate people with greater ease.

But then it occurred to me over a period of time that this is how people stay in touch.

Yeah, those that know me well know to not take it personally if I'm incommunicado for a while. The rest, I don't care enough, either way. I guess, in that way, I'm lucky to have a few, but, still plenty enough people that I can pick up the phone and call, even if I haven't talked to them for like a year, and they're there for me. 100%. As they know the same goes for me.

Meh, anyway, I figured that I shouldn't really turn my nose up at these 'little things', cos they're what, when placed back to back, make up the general scope of most people's lives, and they accumulate to create situations, and subtly alter their personalities as they grow and stuff through it, that sorta thing. I mean you can notice a slight shift in a person's way of thinking through a change in the types of aspects they choose to tell you about, of the introduction of a new pot plant to their office.

+1
Although, for me, it comes down to having my motivation to listen override the banality of what I have to listen to. For most stories of such idle nature, it's damn hard. Sigh.

 

[substitute]

totally relating to you on the whole thing, you know, the part where you feel like you're making an effort for them and listening to their stuff and understanding it, but they're not really able to do the same in return. I guess that's why I often feel lonely... though really that's just outta habit cos I have had some great people for quite a while now, that I've been able to talk openly to and be myself with, and two of them are S's

 

[Little Linguist]

Damn, are you guys really like this? I am scared now! Look, I don't mean to sound like a total jerk (I'm writing it off to having a lower Fe score than an ENTP) but what DO you guys want to listen to? Or do you just want to, I don't know, beep all day?

 

[simulatedworld]

I become significantly more extroverted once I've analyzed the social situation and the people involved and made a calculation as to whether my true self is likely to piss anyone off.

If not, I'll chime in and even get to the point of leading the conversation, but it's taken me a long time to learn the difference.

I agree with Blackmail that learning some Fe does seem to be the solution.



EDIT: btw, Qre's entire post above is exactly what I'm talking about when I refer to ENTPs turning life and virtually everything into a strategy game.

 

[substitute]

Damn, are you guys really like this? I am scared now! Look, I don't mean to sound like a total jerk (I'm writing it off to having a lower Fe score than an ENTP) but what DO you guys want to listen to? Or do you just want to, I don't know, beep all day?

Strangely, there are plenty of people with whom I can quite happily chat all day, and never run out of interesting stuff to talk about.

Also strangely, sometimes it's not even so much what you're talking about, as how it's done. The only F's I've ever known that I can do this with are INFP's, and the only T's I can't are ESTJ's. That's not to say that ESTJ's or the other F's and I don't have good conversations from time to time, it's just that with the other T's, it's effortless.

 

[Qre:us]

EDIT: btw, Qre's entire post above is exactly what I'm talking about when I refer to ENTPs turning life and virtually everything into a strategy game.

Oh please, I shit F-nugget goodness.

Damn, are you guys really like this? I am scared now! Look, I don't mean to sound like a total jerk (I'm writing it off to having a lower Fe score than an ENTP) but what DO you guys want to listen to? Or do you just want to, I don't know, beep all day?

Um...ideas, thoughts, hopes, dreams, issues...so many things. Like sub said, with some, you can't get me to shut up. Even with my xSxx best friend, we usually meet up over the weekend, for like 6-7 hrs each day, and just *talk*. Because I care about her, and know that it is important that I listen to her idle trivialities, there's a bit of that, and I've slowly learned to *speak* in the language where theory/concepts are intriguing for her to listen to. It's fun, learning how to reword and reshape my views/ideas, and, I love coming up with real-world analogies/applicability...and we're golden. I love talking out introspection with others, as I don't do well with it on my own, esp. feelings. (I have major Fi fail) So, I love talking about that. Like asking questions about, love, what is the feeling versus emotion of love? So many things. Humans are wonderfully complex creatures, and the world is a wonderfully kaleidoscopic entity....it makes it impossible to run out of things to talk about. Dream about. Beyond everyday trivialities, unless, one's imagination is stunted.

With the INFJ comment, it's because he's my bf, and we're pretty close that I can say that to him straight up. He gets lost in his Ni sometimes, so, also to aid in his focus to the real-world, aka me, things around him, I just tell him that I'd tune him out. It makes him take note of his surroundings and audience, shake him out of his own head, more than it is about me having to put up with his 'talk' (which I also don't wanna do, but, to a way lesser extent than having to sit through seeing him have a conversation with his own head, just under the guise of telling me...he's strange!)

 

["?"]

The link talks about ideas and new things energising ENTPs and their desire to figure people out, it doesn't talk about needing people or being energised by being around them.

Of course it does not, and Jung never said that extraverted types are energized by being around people. That is a misconception and I am not sure that Myers-Briggs ever said that extraverts are energized by people. Extraversion merely means that you are energized by objects and things other than the self, whereas introverts are generally energized by their own internal worlds. People are not factored in to the equation.

I like the best type fit descriptions but they describe what goes on in someone’s head not what others can easily see, if you could look inside my head or if I vocalised all my thoughts with unsuppressed emotion then I’ve no doubt you’d think I was a crazy-zany extrovert and I’m pretty sure this is why people online have always said that I seem that way, thing is irl you can’t and I don’t, people who know me would see me as pretty reserved and somewhat of a loner. Read it again from that perspective and see if it still seems obvious or not.

I don’t think the average introvert would look at that description as a whole and remotely say that it describes them. Nevertheless the description wreaks of extraversion. There is a misperception that extraverts are people oriented. Untrue extraverts merely focus on and gain energy from something other than themselves.

Furthermore at some point people realize there is a difference in the roles they play (what others see or what they want others to see) and who they truly are (which can only come from inside). Dissecting parts of a description doesn’t help. You have to look at the whole. I think you may want to read it again to realize nothing about the description describes introversion.

 

[Kasper]

I think you may want to read it again to realize nothing about the description describes introversion.

I’ve read it, I understand it, I agree with it and I'm certainly not suggesting that introverts would associate, my suggestion is that there would be some mistyped ENTPs who would read it and say that it isn’t them because it can sound quite extroverted at first glance.

Your comment was "I can't see how the type can mistake themselves as anything but extravert" and my response is because what you read in the description is what happens internally in their heads. You are in a thread titled introverted ENTPs and the common theme seems to be that most ENTPs consider themselves somewhat introverted, it is reasonable to assume based on that alone that it wouldn't be difficult to mistype as introverted.

My suggestion to reread wasn't snark, it was serious, and the reason I said that was because that was what I had to do to appreciate that it isn't actually as extroverted as I initially thought it sounded.

 

[simulatedworld]

^ ENTPs are probably among the most introverted of E types, in my experience.

 

[Qre:us]

I think a lot of that is because extroversion means that one gets their energy from outside, and most likely source of outside, in our society are...people.

And, it may be that those ENTPs who identify with being introverted don't see the merit in people as an outside source as much as systems outside their head, of which people may be one example. So, while other extraverted types are more aware of the outside source as people, and are even HAPPY with that, ENTPs may just have an understanding whereby, by default, it just so happens to be people, even if they may not like the people-aspect of it, they understand that if they want to fiddle with outside systems, one big resource are people. More as a default acceptance than a seeking out.

 

[simulatedworld]

^ That's probably true. +1

 

[substitute]

yeah I'll go with that too, Q

 

["?"]

Your comment was "I can't see how the type can mistake themselves as anything but extravert" and my response is because what you read in the description is what happens internally in their heads. You are in a thread titled introverted ENTPs and the common theme seems to be that most ENTPs consider themselves somewhat introverted, it is reasonable to assume based on that alone that it wouldn't be difficult to mistype as introverted.

You folks seem to be muddling words. Being social does not mean one has to be sociable:

so·cial
1.
a. Living together in communities.
b. Of or relating to communal living.
c. Of or relating to human society and its modes of organization:
2. Living together in organized groups or similar close aggregates:
3. Involving allies or members of a confederacy.

so⋅cia⋅ble
1. inclined to associate with or be in the company of others.
2. friendly or agreeable in company; companionable.
3. characterized by agreeable companionship: a sociable evening at the home of friends.

Keirsey seems to consider all SJ types social because they are community oriented, even the introverted SJs. However ISTJs are not necessarily sociable.

However ENTPs may not be social, but they are (as with any extravert) sociable. I refer to the the Best Fit type description because first it is the only description that I know which was dictated by confirmed ENTPs in a controlled setting, and not based on someone's theory of what a type may appear to be like. ENTPs use buzz words and statements like

”constant state of moving from one interesting thing to another", "getting frustrated when there isn’t enough time to pursue all their interests”, "having wide range of interests and loving to explore the world", like”, “wanting to get to know people and help them make whatever they want to do possibly much bigger", "aligning with them and building trust to get invited in”, being very partner oriented.”

Introverts would never characterize themselves in that manner. Granted all types can and do develop their auxiliary functions, but to claim that most ENTPs consider themselves introverted is silly. What are you claiming to be introversion? Being social or not social has no bearing on E/I. Trinity if you are alluding to anything inside the head then you are not referring to extraversion, but introversion. Shyness does not make one introverted. It's the relationship to an object.

extraversion, extroversion

1. the act of directing one’s interest outward or to things outside the self.
2. the state of having thoughts and activities satisfied by things outside the self. Cf. introversion. — extravert, n. — extraversive, extravertive, adj.

introversion

1. the act of directing one’s interest inward or toward the self.
2. the state of being interested chiefly in one’s own inner thoughts, feelings, and processes. Cf. extraversion. — introvert, n. — introvertive, introversive, adj.

But let's forget about that description for a minute and let's look at any description. Outside of people on the forums who claim to be ENTP, I have yet to see any description that even alludes to ENTPs being introverted.

 

[Kasper]

but to claim that most ENTPs consider themselves introverted is silly.

That's not what I said and it wasn't a subjective comment, what I said was "You are in a thread titled introverted ENTPs and the common theme seems to be that most ENTPs consider themselves somewhat introverted" read the posts in here, they do. I'm talking about the ENTPs who are here, right now, in this thread. Either your claiming that we're mistyped or you have to acknowledge that this is what we're saying about ourselves as ENTPs.

There are plenty of other threads suggesting similar things;
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nt-rationale/11864-entp-alone-quiet-extravert.html
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nt-rationale/11940-e-entp.html
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/what-s-my-type/8417-introverted-entp.html
entp isolation
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ces/14934-how-loud-obnoxious-you-reality.html

I have no problems with what you’re saying about what I and E mean, just with your statement that you “can't see how the type can mistake themselves as anything but extravert”. It’s pretty easy. Cognitive functions between INTP and ENTP are the same just in different order so even that can cause mistyping.

What are you claiming to be introversion? Being social or not social has no bearing on E/I.

Q’s post explained it well. ENTPs can be somewhat uninterested in socialising with people and yes that is part of what can be defined as extroversion when taking tests which would again result in people being mistyped.

Jump onto the simple MBTI test on personality pathways and the description for extroversion is

• Act first, think/reflect later
• Feel deprived when cutoff from interaction with the outside world
• Usually open to and motivated by outside world of people and things
• Enjoy wide variety and change in people relationships

Two of the points mention people, someone without a deeper understanding of how big of a role the 'things' part can play in an ENTPs world could very easily mistype themselves.

Trinity if you are alluding to anything inside the head then you are not referring to extraversion, but introversion.

??

Come again?

I live in my head, that does not make me an introvert.

Outside of people on the forums who claim to be ENTP, I have yet to see any description that even alludes to ENTPs being introverted.

Again, unless you're claiming that people on this forum who claim ENTP are mistyped then this is yet another reason why ENTPs can be mistyped.

 

[entropie]

I think a lot of that is because extroversion means that one gets their energy from outside, and most likely source of outside, in our society are...people.

And, it may be that those ENTPs who identify with being introverted don't see the merit in people as an outside source as much as systems outside their head, of which people may be one example. So, while other extraverted types are more aware of the outside source as people, and are even HAPPY with that, ENTPs may just have an understanding whereby, by default, it just so happens to be people, even if they may not like the people-aspect of it, they understand that if they want to fiddle with outside systems, one big resource are people. More as a default acceptance than a seeking out.

I have to say for myself, I never really blamed people for anything nor watched I possible implications or reactions my approach could toggle in them. That's why I am still surprised sometimes by someones reaction to something I said. A reaction I didnt expect.

The main reason, I started the thread, was due to my feeling wherever I am together with people and do something, I always create an aura of "to look introvert", at least thats my feeling. No matter what I do, if I just speak my mind or if I think before I talk, I always come up with something that either freaks people out or they dont get it, like I meant it.

To be successful in my job and university, I cultivated traditional norms and gestures between people. So that's the basic Fe + Si concept. What's a thing prolly all types share, cause every person on this world is different from the other and one needs like a guidebook to communications to succeed.

Before I did understand that tho, I was pretty freaky and tho I figure most typeC members figured that already (me being freaky I didnt mean ), I nevertheless wanted to start a thread about it again, to help newcomers aswell.

I have found my place now, the Ne + Ti combination works wonders in my job in mechanical engineering. While I would say the Ti + Ne combination is better for industrious mathematical work, the Ne + Ti combination works like a problem solver or generator to new approaches to a given problem. In a team the only problem we have is a technical one, all personal things aside and all you need to concentrate on is the project at hand. In an atmosphere like that I excel at working with people and wouldnt miss them. But as an psychologist, to someone who has problems with his girl for example, I tend to fall back to learnt phrases, like "Hey, as long as their is a nude bar, men really will never have girl issues ", which prolly is a Fe + Si thing then. (And here can be said, the introverted Sensing does definitly at some points present to an outstander a new approach too, to look at a situation, cause the experience was perceived internally and therefor is subjective to the person telling it)

So what I wanted to basically say, I think I figured where my limits are. The Ne + Ti combination is good to work as an inspirational generator for new ideas for oneself and other people aswell, but it doesnt work really good with other people. And the Fe + Si combo stores your ability to be able to move in society and present a perfect / rather perfect waltz to your girlfriend, you want to impress. Like DocBrown in Back to the Future .

I know thats all not much new and prolly comes off as stating the obvious. But I recently started to sort out things for myself and to bring some structure into my own serendipities and because I am extroverted, I like to generate structure by bouncing off thoughts from others.

 

[the state i am in]

the entps i know went thru periods of social reclusivity/breakdown of their identities. one of my friends told me everyone always acted like he was crazy, so eventually he just made it work for him. he's usually pretty introverted until you get him high or give him some positive feedback, then he just won't stop. another wnet thru a period when Fe start kicking in during college where he felt the Fe implosion that sometimes happens when you feel you get way more negative feedback than positive. he came out of it and is really in touch with his feelings and those of others. he's really focusing on tailorin his expressions to SAY SOMETHING to others in a language taht is helpful to them. he wants his identity to shine thru as a prankster, visionary, etc, but he cannot stand losing sight of the mission of actually DOING something productive. very well balanced between teh entp and intp skills as a result.

 

[Samvega]

I will comment as one of the oldest ENTP active users on TypeC.

When I was younger I was pretty guarded and worried people would "see me" and know more about me than I was comfortable with them knowing. As I've gotten older two things have happened, firstly I don't mind some hurt, it comes with life, it's meant to be learned from. I've learned far more from my failures than my successes anyway.

Secondly I trust the Ne/Ti combo, so I open myself up and I trust that if somebody fires at the softer parts of me I can catch it in time. Sorta like those scenes in movies where they shoot an arrow at somebody and they turn and catch it inches from their face.

Life was too hard before so I just let it all out there now and I'm me, too much energy has been spent already only giving some people some parts of me. If they can't handle all of me I move on.

As for the social aspect of things, I can take center stage for awhile and come of like extrovert central but I can only pull that off for maybe 2 hours and then I'm drained and will fade out of sight.

I love my alone time but seem to do best with a lot of one on one or very small group situations. I can go off for months at a time and be isolated but that isn't where I feel most alive.

The issue and maybe it's only child maybe it's ENTP is that I want people when I want them and I'm done when I'm done. So when I REALLY wanna do something I need to have a fairly large base of friends or people I know so there is always somebody willing to do whatever and whenever.