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  1. #51
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I think you may want to read it again to realize nothing about the description describes introversion.
    I’ve read it, I understand it, I agree with it and I'm certainly not suggesting that introverts would associate, my suggestion is that there would be some mistyped ENTPs who would read it and say that it isn’t them because it can sound quite extroverted at first glance.

    Your comment was "I can't see how the type can mistake themselves as anything but extravert" and my response is because what you read in the description is what happens internally in their heads. You are in a thread titled introverted ENTPs and the common theme seems to be that most ENTPs consider themselves somewhat introverted, it is reasonable to assume based on that alone that it wouldn't be difficult to mistype as introverted.

    My suggestion to reread wasn't snark, it was serious, and the reason I said that was because that was what I had to do to appreciate that it isn't actually as extroverted as I initially thought it sounded.

  2. #52
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ ENTPs are probably among the most introverted of E types, in my experience.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #53
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    I think a lot of that is because extroversion means that one gets their energy from outside, and most likely source of outside, in our society are...people.

    And, it may be that those ENTPs who identify with being introverted don't see the merit in people as an outside source as much as systems outside their head, of which people may be one example. So, while other extraverted types are more aware of the outside source as people, and are even HAPPY with that, ENTPs may just have an understanding whereby, by default, it just so happens to be people, even if they may not like the people-aspect of it, they understand that if they want to fiddle with outside systems, one big resource are people. More as a default acceptance than a seeking out.

  4. #54
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ That's probably true. +1
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #55
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    yeah I'll go with that too, Q
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  6. #56
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Your comment was "I can't see how the type can mistake themselves as anything but extravert" and my response is because what you read in the description is what happens internally in their heads. You are in a thread titled introverted ENTPs and the common theme seems to be that most ENTPs consider themselves somewhat introverted, it is reasonable to assume based on that alone that it wouldn't be difficult to mistype as introverted.
    You folks seem to be muddling words. Being social does not mean one has to be sociable:
    so·cial
    1.
    a. Living together in communities.
    b. Of or relating to communal living.
    c. Of or relating to human society and its modes of organization:
    2. Living together in organized groups or similar close aggregates:
    3. Involving allies or members of a confederacy.

    so?cia?ble
    1. inclined to associate with or be in the company of others.
    2. friendly or agreeable in company; companionable.
    3. characterized by agreeable companionship: a sociable evening at the home of friends.
    Keirsey seems to consider all SJ types social because they are community oriented, even the introverted SJs. However ISTJs are not necessarily sociable.

    However ENTPs may not be social, but they are (as with any extravert) sociable. I refer to the the Best Fit type description because first it is the only description that I know which was dictated by confirmed ENTPs in a controlled setting, and not based on someone's theory of what a type may appear to be like. ENTPs use buzz words and statements like
    ”constant state of moving from one interesting thing to another", "getting frustrated when there isn’t enough time to pursue all their interests”, "having wide range of interests and loving to explore the world", like”, “wanting to get to know people and help them make whatever they want to do possibly much bigger", "aligning with them and building trust to get invited in”, being very partner oriented.”
    Introverts would never characterize themselves in that manner. Granted all types can and do develop their auxiliary functions, but to claim that most ENTPs consider themselves introverted is silly. What are you claiming to be introversion? Being social or not social has no bearing on E/I. Trinity if you are alluding to anything inside the head then you are not referring to extraversion, but introversion. Shyness does not make one introverted. It's the relationship to an object.
    extraversion, extroversion

    1. the act of directing one’s interest outward or to things outside the self.
    2. the state of having thoughts and activities satisfied by things outside the self. Cf. introversion. — extravert, n. — extraversive, extravertive, adj.

    introversion

    1. the act of directing one’s interest inward or toward the self.
    2. the state of being interested chiefly in one’s own inner thoughts, feelings, and processes. Cf. extraversion. — introvert, n. — introvertive, introversive, adj.
    But let's forget about that description for a minute and let's look at any description. Outside of people on the forums who claim to be ENTP, I have yet to see any description that even alludes to ENTPs being introverted.

  7. #57
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    but to claim that most ENTPs consider themselves introverted is silly.
    That's not what I said and it wasn't a subjective comment, what I said was "You are in a thread titled introverted ENTPs and the common theme seems to be that most ENTPs consider themselves somewhat introverted" read the posts in here, they do. I'm talking about the ENTPs who are here, right now, in this thread. Either your claiming that we're mistyped or you have to acknowledge that this is what we're saying about ourselves as ENTPs.

    There are plenty of other threads suggesting similar things;
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...extravert.html
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...40-e-entp.html
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...rted-entp.html
    entp isolation
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...u-reality.html

    I have no problems with what you’re saying about what I and E mean, just with your statement that you “can't see how the type can mistake themselves as anything but extravert”. It’s pretty easy. Cognitive functions between INTP and ENTP are the same just in different order so even that can cause mistyping.

    What are you claiming to be introversion? Being social or not social has no bearing on E/I.
    Q’s post explained it well. ENTPs can be somewhat uninterested in socialising with people and yes that is part of what can be defined as extroversion when taking tests which would again result in people being mistyped.

    Jump onto the simple MBTI test on personality pathways and the description for extroversion is
    • Act first, think/reflect later
    • Feel deprived when cutoff from interaction with the outside world
    • Usually open to and motivated by outside world of people and things
    • Enjoy wide variety and change in people relationships


    Two of the points mention people, someone without a deeper understanding of how big of a role the 'things' part can play in an ENTPs world could very easily mistype themselves.

    Trinity if you are alluding to anything inside the head then you are not referring to extraversion, but introversion.
    ??

    Come again?

    I live in my head, that does not make me an introvert.

    Outside of people on the forums who claim to be ENTP, I have yet to see any description that even alludes to ENTPs being introverted.
    Again, unless you're claiming that people on this forum who claim ENTP are mistyped then this is yet another reason why ENTPs can be mistyped.

  8. #58
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I think a lot of that is because extroversion means that one gets their energy from outside, and most likely source of outside, in our society are...people.

    And, it may be that those ENTPs who identify with being introverted don't see the merit in people as an outside source as much as systems outside their head, of which people may be one example. So, while other extraverted types are more aware of the outside source as people, and are even HAPPY with that, ENTPs may just have an understanding whereby, by default, it just so happens to be people, even if they may not like the people-aspect of it, they understand that if they want to fiddle with outside systems, one big resource are people. More as a default acceptance than a seeking out.
    I have to say for myself, I never really blamed people for anything nor watched I possible implications or reactions my approach could toggle in them. That's why I am still surprised sometimes by someones reaction to something I said. A reaction I didnt expect.

    The main reason, I started the thread, was due to my feeling wherever I am together with people and do something, I always create an aura of "to look introvert", at least thats my feeling. No matter what I do, if I just speak my mind or if I think before I talk, I always come up with something that either freaks people out or they dont get it, like I meant it.

    To be successful in my job and university, I cultivated traditional norms and gestures between people. So that's the basic Fe + Si concept. What's a thing prolly all types share, cause every person on this world is different from the other and one needs like a guidebook to communications to succeed.

    Before I did understand that tho, I was pretty freaky and tho I figure most typeC members figured that already (me being freaky I didnt mean ), I nevertheless wanted to start a thread about it again, to help newcomers aswell.

    I have found my place now, the Ne + Ti combination works wonders in my job in mechanical engineering. While I would say the Ti + Ne combination is better for industrious mathematical work, the Ne + Ti combination works like a problem solver or generator to new approaches to a given problem. In a team the only problem we have is a technical one, all personal things aside and all you need to concentrate on is the project at hand. In an atmosphere like that I excel at working with people and wouldnt miss them. But as an psychologist, to someone who has problems with his girl for example, I tend to fall back to learnt phrases, like "Hey, as long as their is a nude bar, men really will never have girl issues ", which prolly is a Fe + Si thing then. (And here can be said, the introverted Sensing does definitly at some points present to an outstander a new approach too, to look at a situation, cause the experience was perceived internally and therefor is subjective to the person telling it)

    So what I wanted to basically say, I think I figured where my limits are. The Ne + Ti combination is good to work as an inspirational generator for new ideas for oneself and other people aswell, but it doesnt work really good with other people. And the Fe + Si combo stores your ability to be able to move in society and present a perfect / rather perfect waltz to your girlfriend, you want to impress. Like DocBrown in Back to the Future .

    I know thats all not much new and prolly comes off as stating the obvious. But I recently started to sort out things for myself and to bring some structure into my own serendipities and because I am extroverted, I like to generate structure by bouncing off thoughts from others.
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  9. #59
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    the entps i know went thru periods of social reclusivity/breakdown of their identities. one of my friends told me everyone always acted like he was crazy, so eventually he just made it work for him. he's usually pretty introverted until you get him high or give him some positive feedback, then he just won't stop. another wnet thru a period when Fe start kicking in during college where he felt the Fe implosion that sometimes happens when you feel you get way more negative feedback than positive. he came out of it and is really in touch with his feelings and those of others. he's really focusing on tailorin his expressions to SAY SOMETHING to others in a language taht is helpful to them. he wants his identity to shine thru as a prankster, visionary, etc, but he cannot stand losing sight of the mission of actually DOING something productive. very well balanced between teh entp and intp skills as a result.

  10. #60
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    I will comment as one of the oldest ENTP active users on TypeC.

    When I was younger I was pretty guarded and worried people would "see me" and know more about me than I was comfortable with them knowing. As I've gotten older two things have happened, firstly I don't mind some hurt, it comes with life, it's meant to be learned from. I've learned far more from my failures than my successes anyway.

    Secondly I trust the Ne/Ti combo, so I open myself up and I trust that if somebody fires at the softer parts of me I can catch it in time. Sorta like those scenes in movies where they shoot an arrow at somebody and they turn and catch it inches from their face.

    Life was too hard before so I just let it all out there now and I'm me, too much energy has been spent already only giving some people some parts of me. If they can't handle all of me I move on.

    As for the social aspect of things, I can take center stage for awhile and come of like extrovert central but I can only pull that off for maybe 2 hours and then I'm drained and will fade out of sight.

    I love my alone time but seem to do best with a lot of one on one or very small group situations. I can go off for months at a time and be isolated but that isn't where I feel most alive.

    The issue and maybe it's only child maybe it's ENTP is that I want people when I want them and I'm done when I'm done. So when I REALLY wanna do something I need to have a fairly large base of friends or people I know so there is always somebody willing to do whatever and whenever.

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