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  1. #41
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post

    My INFJ gets pissed sometimes, cuz he'll be telling me about a story or his day, at work, and I interrupt, "Is is out of the ordinary? Is there a point to this story you're aiming to illustrate? Did you get some particular insight through this occurance? Something exciting happen?"

    "No, just telling you what happened"

    "Okay, don't bother telling me because I will be too bored to listen."

    I detest idle chatter, unless it's the idle/wacky/weird association kind. And, I may come off 'not people-person liking' for it, sometimes. But, I can totally fake interest if I am aiming for means to an end, though.
    Whilst I relate to that and it's my natural inclination, I have learned in the last few years that there can be a point to pretty much everything if you're willing to notice it...

    What I mean is, though this guy says he's just telling you what happened, the fact that he's telling you it, the way he tells it, what aspects of it he chooses to tell you and the way he responds to your comments, tells you something about him. It's one of those 'little things' uh, things.

    For example, I used to hate Facebook cos my family would make these threads in my inbox with a bunch of people included in them, and they'd just talk about any old shit, mostly mundane stuff, talking about their everyday lives. Stuff like 'I got some new green cushions today, they go so nicely with my sofa' and 'I'm having beef pie tonight, yummy!' and I'd just yawn and roll my eyes and figure I had nothing to add but sarcastic comments about how exciting it all was, resisting which, I said nothing.

    But then it occurred to me over a period of time that this is how people stay in touch. I mean, some of these family members live in other countries to me, and I realized I'd quite lost touch with them. I had no idea what was going on in their lives, what their concerns were, where they were at or whatever, cos I didn't figure it was worth making the effort to talk to them unless we had earth shatteringly fascinating stuff to talk about. So they didn't have a clue about my life either, then I'd complain that I felt alone because, when the time came when I wanted to talk to someone when things did start to get 'interesting' in my life, I found there wasn't anyone I could talk to who fully understood the situation, you know, who'd been there through the run up and knew what my life was like in general.

    Meh, anyway, I figured that I shouldn't really turn my nose up at these 'little things', cos they're what, when placed back to back, make up the general scope of most people's lives, and they accumulate to create situations, and subtly alter their personalities as they grow and stuff through it, that sorta thing. I mean you can notice a slight shift in a person's way of thinking through a change in the types of aspects they choose to tell you about, of the introduction of a new pot plant to their office.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
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  2. #42
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    I think these "introverted" ENTPs are just social pariahs that no one wants to be around.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Whilst I relate to that and it's my natural inclination, I have learned in the last few years that there can be a point to pretty much everything if you're willing to notice it...

    What I mean is, though this guy says he's just telling you what happened, the fact that he's telling you it, the way he tells it, what aspects of it he chooses to tell you and the way he responds to your comments, tells you something about him. It's one of those 'little things' uh, things.

    For example, I used to hate Facebook cos my family would make these threads in my inbox with a bunch of people included in them, and they'd just talk about any old shit, mostly mundane stuff, talking about their everyday lives. Stuff like 'I got some new green cushions today, they go so nicely with my sofa' and 'I'm having beef pie tonight, yummy!' and I'd just yawn and roll my eyes and figure I had nothing to add but sarcastic comments about how exciting it all was, resisting which, I said nothing.

    But then it occurred to me over a period of time that this is how people stay in touch. I mean, some of these family members live in other countries to me, and I realized I'd quite lost touch with them. I had no idea what was going on in their lives, what their concerns were, where they were at or whatever, cos I didn't figure it was worth making the effort to talk to them unless we had earth shatteringly fascinating stuff to talk about. So they didn't have a clue about my life either, then I'd complain that I felt alone because, when the time came when I wanted to talk to someone when things did start to get 'interesting' in my life, I found there wasn't anyone I could talk to who fully understood the situation, you know, who'd been there through the run up and knew what my life was like in general.

    Meh, anyway, I figured that I shouldn't really turn my nose up at these 'little things', cos they're what, when placed back to back, make up the general scope of most people's lives, and they accumulate to create situations, and subtly alter their personalities as they grow and stuff through it, that sorta thing. I mean you can notice a slight shift in a person's way of thinking through a change in the types of aspects they choose to tell you about, of the introduction of a new pot plant to their office.
    i reached the same conclusions except i came to it trying to find a thing or two about humility...cant deny the fact that you still get bored to death though

  4. #44
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    Whilst I relate to that and it's my natural inclination, I have learned in the last few years that there can be a point to pretty much everything if you're willing to notice it...

    What I mean is, though this guy says he's just telling you what happened, the fact that he's telling you it, the way he tells it, what aspects of it he chooses to tell you and the way he responds to your comments, tells you something about him. It's one of those 'little things' uh, things.
    Yeah, two of my best friends are ESFJ and xSxx. That is one way they quantify 'care'. If you listen to their 'little things'. Like, with the xSxx, listening to her work issues, and she has a habit of being very, very, very, very detailed, starting from the start, to every little nuance thing that a person did or said, right until the end.

    I usually find motivation to 'listen' by creating a 'motive'. That Ne-find-connection-relevance-in-everything. Whether it be figuring out motivation and personality quirks of the people she works with, in order to better advise her on how to 'play' to each person, or, helping her figure out loopholes to work around these characters and situations.

    The difference is, I'm very good at figuring out what people are thinking, even if they do not voice it. So, I know that when I talk about *my* stuff, like 'weird' theories, or, when I discuss my work, which is more about 'what ifs'/concept driven, I know that my xSxx, and, even ESFJ (who even admits that she tunes people out) are not really interested and 'pretending'. And, I can't understand the merit in pretend, esp. if the main reason is social etiquette. And, so I then wrap up my story as fast as possible because I can sympathize with that kind of boredom.

    I just sometimes get petulant because although I shift my behaviour to accomodate others (esp. cuz they don't ask for it, but, I pick up on it)...I don't get the same courtesy back, and they don't know that I gave them the courtesy in the first place. So, I just sometimes go into the "fuck it, I'm zoning them out" phase. All really comes down to respect for that person on the other end.

    Another reason I force myself to listen is because it allows me to plump up my databank of the characters around me (you never know if/when a kernal of information that seemingly is trite, can come in handy down the road). It helps me nagivate people with greater ease.

    But then it occurred to me over a period of time that this is how people stay in touch.
    Yeah, those that know me well know to not take it personally if I'm incommunicado for a while. The rest, I don't care enough, either way. I guess, in that way, I'm lucky to have a few, but, still plenty enough people that I can pick up the phone and call, even if I haven't talked to them for like a year, and they're there for me. 100%. As they know the same goes for me.

    Meh, anyway, I figured that I shouldn't really turn my nose up at these 'little things', cos they're what, when placed back to back, make up the general scope of most people's lives, and they accumulate to create situations, and subtly alter their personalities as they grow and stuff through it, that sorta thing. I mean you can notice a slight shift in a person's way of thinking through a change in the types of aspects they choose to tell you about, of the introduction of a new pot plant to their office.
    +1
    Although, for me, it comes down to having my motivation to listen override the banality of what I have to listen to. For most stories of such idle nature, it's damn hard. Sigh.

  5. #45
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    totally relating to you on the whole thing, you know, the part where you feel like you're making an effort for them and listening to their stuff and understanding it, but they're not really able to do the same in return. I guess that's why I often feel lonely... though really that's just outta habit cos I have had some great people for quite a while now, that I've been able to talk openly to and be myself with, and two of them are S's
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  6. #46
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Damn, are you guys really like this? I am scared now! Look, I don't mean to sound like a total jerk (I'm writing it off to having a lower Fe score than an ENTP) but what DO you guys want to listen to? Or do you just want to, I don't know, beep all day?
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  7. #47
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    I become significantly more extroverted once I've analyzed the social situation and the people involved and made a calculation as to whether my true self is likely to piss anyone off.

    If not, I'll chime in and even get to the point of leading the conversation, but it's taken me a long time to learn the difference.

    I agree with Blackmail that learning some Fe does seem to be the solution.



    EDIT: btw, Qre's entire post above is exactly what I'm talking about when I refer to ENTPs turning life and virtually everything into a strategy game.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Damn, are you guys really like this? I am scared now! Look, I don't mean to sound like a total jerk (I'm writing it off to having a lower Fe score than an ENTP) but what DO you guys want to listen to? Or do you just want to, I don't know, beep all day?
    Strangely, there are plenty of people with whom I can quite happily chat all day, and never run out of interesting stuff to talk about.

    Also strangely, sometimes it's not even so much what you're talking about, as how it's done. The only F's I've ever known that I can do this with are INFP's, and the only T's I can't are ESTJ's. That's not to say that ESTJ's or the other F's and I don't have good conversations from time to time, it's just that with the other T's, it's effortless.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  9. #49
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    EDIT: btw, Qre's entire post above is exactly what I'm talking about when I refer to ENTPs turning life and virtually everything into a strategy game.
    Oh please, I shit F-nugget goodness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Damn, are you guys really like this? I am scared now! Look, I don't mean to sound like a total jerk (I'm writing it off to having a lower Fe score than an ENTP) but what DO you guys want to listen to? Or do you just want to, I don't know, beep all day?
    Um...ideas, thoughts, hopes, dreams, issues...so many things. Like sub said, with some, you can't get me to shut up. Even with my xSxx best friend, we usually meet up over the weekend, for like 6-7 hrs each day, and just *talk*. Because I care about her, and know that it is important that I listen to her idle trivialities, there's a bit of that, and I've slowly learned to *speak* in the language where theory/concepts are intriguing for her to listen to. It's fun, learning how to reword and reshape my views/ideas, and, I love coming up with real-world analogies/applicability...and we're golden. I love talking out introspection with others, as I don't do well with it on my own, esp. feelings. (I have major Fi fail) So, I love talking about that. Like asking questions about, love, what is the feeling versus emotion of love? So many things. Humans are wonderfully complex creatures, and the world is a wonderfully kaleidoscopic entity....it makes it impossible to run out of things to talk about. Dream about. Beyond everyday trivialities, unless, one's imagination is stunted.

    With the INFJ comment, it's because he's my bf, and we're pretty close that I can say that to him straight up. He gets lost in his Ni sometimes, so, also to aid in his focus to the real-world, aka me, things around him, I just tell him that I'd tune him out. It makes him take note of his surroundings and audience, shake him out of his own head, more than it is about me having to put up with his 'talk' (which I also don't wanna do, but, to a way lesser extent than having to sit through seeing him have a conversation with his own head, just under the guise of telling me...he's strange!)

  10. #50
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    The link talks about ideas and new things energising ENTPs and their desire to figure people out, it doesn't talk about needing people or being energised by being around them.
    Of course it does not, and Jung never said that extraverted types are energized by being around people. That is a misconception and I am not sure that Myers-Briggs ever said that extraverts are energized by people. Extraversion merely means that you are energized by objects and things other than the self, whereas introverts are generally energized by their own internal worlds. People are not factored in to the equation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    I like the best type fit descriptions but they describe what goes on in someones head not what others can easily see, if you could look inside my head or if I vocalised all my thoughts with unsuppressed emotion then Ive no doubt youd think I was a crazy-zany extrovert and Im pretty sure this is why people online have always said that I seem that way, thing is irl you cant and I dont, people who know me would see me as pretty reserved and somewhat of a loner. Read it again from that perspective and see if it still seems obvious or not.
    I dont think the average introvert would look at that description as a whole and remotely say that it describes them. Nevertheless the description wreaks of extraversion. There is a misperception that extraverts are people oriented. Untrue extraverts merely focus on and gain energy from something other than themselves.

    Furthermore at some point people realize there is a difference in the roles they play (what others see or what they want others to see) and who they truly are (which can only come from inside). Dissecting parts of a description doesnt help. You have to look at the whole. I think you may want to read it again to realize nothing about the description describes introversion.

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