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  1. #1
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default The Belief in Personal Experience

    Just as for some denominations, the Bible is the last word, personal experience is the last word here.

    Ideas can be accepted or rejected, even opinions can be accepted or rejected - unless of course they are based on personal experience - and then they are sacrosanct.

    So here it is bad manners to question personal experience.

    And I admit I find this as annoying as someone quoting the Bible to me as the last word.

    But at the same time I can see that personal experience is the last redoubt. And when personal experience goes, there is nothing left.

    So it would be cruel to cast doubt on personal experience.

    But my annoyance with you allows me to be a little cruel.

    For instance, personal experience is no more than anecdotal.

    And the anecdotal can't be used to establish any broader principles.

    But worse if you rely ultimately on personal experience, you end up as isolated individuals.

    There is no possibility to join together for larger social ends.

    Indeed the extreme individualists raise their hands in horror and call it, "Socialism".

    But the tragedy is that if you are atomised individuals, you are in fact at the mercy of larger social forces.

    And you have no way of understanding these larger social forces, and so they seem mysterious to you. And in response you are attracted to conspiracy theories and paranoia.

    When you rely on personal experience and have no understanding of society, you become prey to any scamsters that come along - like Mrs Myers and her daughter Mrs Briggs.

    But the faith in personal experience is deep and profound. And can only be described as a religious belief.

    And this is a religious belief held by one whole nation.

    And this belief is de rigueur here.

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    I happen to like socialism. Ice cream for everybody!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I happen to like socialism. Ice cream for everybody!
    Well, I don't like Socialism and nor does my country. We are democratic capitalists and have been from the very beginning.

    However my country does not give the last word to the Bible nor to personal experience.

    In fact the larger social forces are openly and traditionally expressed in our political parties.

    Our Labor Party is the oldest social democratic party in the world and represents the Unions.

    While our Liberal Party represents business.

    And both parties have different ideologies and different ethos.

    Whereas over there they have two parties of business.

    And naturally business believes in the individual and personal experience, simply because they can manipulate and use the individual for their own profit.

    In, "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism", Max Weber show how business and religion work hand in hand.

    Over there the politicians regularly and often call upon God, but if they did so here, they would be laughed at.

    So over there the belief in personal experience has been nurtured and cultivated by both business and religion until it has been set in stone.

    And it seems to me that those who rely on personal experience as the last word are kinda stoney.

    Their hearts are shallow and cold and they live in a stoned world of one dimension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    However my country does not give the last word to the Bible nor to personal experience.
    Well, obviously we could use some improvements in our educational system in the U.S.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Well, obviously we could use some improvements in our educational system in the U.S.
    It's far too late for that.

    For Protestantism and Business have had a long and successful marriage over there and you are their children.

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    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone thinks it's bad manners to question beliefs or personal experiences. But I think it's bad manners to tell someone that there personal experience or belief is wrong. There is a difference.

    I also don't understand how relying on personal experience leaves you isolated. Maybe you can define "rely" for me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I don't think anyone thinks it's bad manners to question beliefs or personal experiences. But I think it's bad manners to tell someone that there personal experience or belief is wrong. There is a difference.

    I also don't understand how relying on personal experience leaves you isolated. Maybe you can define "rely" for me?
    Look around you here.

    When we get into an argument, we all try to have the last word.

    We all try to be the last authority.

    And the last fall back is to say, "Well, this is my own personal experience, and you have your own personal experience, and that's that".

    Of course if we did question that, the whole edifice of your society would come crashing down.

    So of those things of which we cannot speak, we remain silent.

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    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    So how should arguments of a personal nature end, then? I think there is no system on the planet that wasn't grounded in a personal experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It's far too late for that.

    For Protestantism and Business have had a long and successful marriage over there and you are their children.
    Oh please. You're exaggerating. America isn't always as bad as it looks on T.V.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I think there is no system on the planet that wasn't grounded in a personal experience.
    This is an entirely religious belief.

    Your mind has been entirely captured by Protestantism.

    You are perfectly adapted to your environment.

    You fully believe that that there is no system on the planet that isn't grounded in personal experience.

    Well, I can tell you I am living in one right now.

    And of course to believe there there is no other system on the planet, other than yours, is grotesquely imperial.

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