The Belief in Personal Experience

[Mole]

Do you mean that literally, or as a metaphor for individual interpretation versus centralized interpretation?

Both.

For there are literal Protestant Churches and a literal Catholic Church.

However they have been around for a very long time so a Protestant sensibility has developed as well as a Catholic sensibility.

 

[Mole]

Do you mean that literally, or as a metaphor for individual interpretation versus centralized interpretation?

A metaphor is a comparison of relationships.

And so in comparing the history of your fine country with mine, metaphors come into their own.

 

[jenocyde]

Hoist on my own petard.

...and blow us both to the moon.

 

[Mole]

But allowing everyone to have their own opinion is the opposite of Imperialism, which is why we like it.

All empires are different.

And the empire you betrayed in your eight year war of treachery in the 18th Century, was the British Empire.

And the British Empire was a territorial empire, while your empire is an economic empire.

But I admire your chutzpah by being spectacularly disingenuous in denying you are an empire.

 

[Thalassa]

C'mon, we believe America is a force for good in the world, that is why we have been allies since 1904.

What I am trying to say is beyond good and evil.

I am very interested in comparative history. And particularly comparing the histories of North and South America with the history of Oz.

And the comparison reveals vast similarities which only serve to highlight the differences.

So we can learn to understand ourselves better by understanding one another.

But a moralism doesn't take us very far in the direction of understanding.

I agree with everything you're saying. That's why I'm telling you that America isn't as bad as it seems - there are plenty of us here who are interested in comparitive history and other cultures. We're just not the ones who get the most air play.

 

[Thalassa]

All empires are different.

And the empire you betrayed in your eight year war of treachery in the 18th Century, was the British Empire.

And the British Empire was a territorial empire, while your empire is an economic empire.

But I admire your chutzpah by being spectacularly disingenuous in denying you are an empire.

I don't deny that the United States is an economic empire. I never said that it wasn't. It's part of the reason I'm so sympathetic to democratic socialism.

But I don't see what that has to do with people being allowed to decide certain arguments (but of course not all issues) upon personal experience.

 

[Mole]

...and blow us both to the moon.

And once again we find ourselves in space without a parachute between us.

The outlines of your face are starting to become familiar as we fall towards the Earth.

I don't know why you hang on to me so tightly - it is almost as though I have a parachute.

And equally I don't know why I hang onto you so tightly - as I know you don't have a parachute.

Call it a folie à deux if you like but here we are, once again, tête-à-tête.

 

[A Schnitzel]

This is simply a dogma.

So you believe there are innate ideas?

Victor, I never took you for the type.
It's usually the religious that hang onto Rationalism.
But don't mind me, I couldn't understand a lick of what Leibniz was saying.

 

[Mole]

It's part of the reason I'm so sympathetic to democratic socialism.

Just so that it is crystal clear - I don't support democratic socialism.

Perhaps we have a confusion of terms.

Our Labor Party is a social democratic party, it is not a democratic socialist party.

Our Labor Party does not support socialism however it does support social democracy.

I support liberal democracy as the least evil of the political systems. So I support both our Liberal Party and our Labor Party, as both our main parties are liberal democratic parties.

However, as you know, Australia invented the Secret Ballot. And throughout the world, the Secret Ballot is known as the Australian Ballot.

So, alas, I am not going to tell you who I vote for.

 

[Mole]

But I don't see what that has to do with people being allowed to decide certain arguments (but of course not all issues) upon personal experience.

It is because you were founded by Protestants who believed in the personal interpretation of the Bible.

Of course you have now democratised and secularised Protestantism, but still you deeply and profoundly believe in personal interpretation and personal experience.

And because you have forgotten the origins of your reliance on personal experience, it is all the more powerful.

I mean, let's face it - an American is never more American than when they are alone.

 

[Thalassa]

It is because you were founded by Protestants who believed in the personal interpretation of the Bible.

Of course you have now democratised and secularised Protestantism, but still you deeply and profoundly believe in personal interpretation and personal experience.

And because you have forgotten the origins of your reliance on personal experience, it is all the more powerful.

I mean, let's face it - an American is never more American than when they are alone.

Or could it actually be because we live in such a pluralistic society? The United States is made up not only of Protestants, but of Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Witches, and atheists. Our collective heritage came here from literally all over the world. Very few people in this country are one "pure" race or culture. We have all had to learn to live together, especially in the last few decades as issues like racism and other forms of intolerance have come to the forefront to be dealt with.

Therefore we have learned to respect the experiences of others as not being like ours, because in this country (unless you live down in a holler) it's highly likely that one meets people very different from him or herself on a regular basis.

It's important to take the personal experiences of others into serious consideration, otherwise we would be limited by our own experience.

 

[Mole]

Or could it actually be because we live in such a pluralistic society? The United States is made up not only of Protestants, but of Catholics, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Witches, and atheists. Our collective heritage came here from literally all over the world. Very few people in this country are one "pure" race or culture. We have all had to learn to live together, especially in the last few decades as issues like racism and other forms of intolerance have come to the forefront to be dealt with.

Therefore we have learned to respect the experiences of others as not being like ours, because in this country (unless you live down in a holler) it's highly likely that one meets people very different from him or herself on a regular basis.

It's important to take the personal experiences of others into serious consideration, otherwise we would be limited by our own experience.

My country is even more multicultural than yours. And in fact our official policy is Multiculturalism. And yet we don't rely on personal experience in the same way you do.

So we need to go back to our origins to discover our differences.

You were founded by Protestants as well as a bourgeois, that is a business, revolution. And both reinforced one another and both strongly believed in personal experience.

Whereas we were founded by the Scottish and English Enlightenment and have had no revolution, neither bourgeois nor proletarian.

So we remain the children of the Aristocratic Enlightenment.

While you are the children of the Protestant Bourgeoise.

 

[Thalassa]

My country is even more multicultural than yours. And in fact our official policy is Multiculturalism. And yet we don't rely on personal experience in the same way you do.

So we need to go back to our origins to discover our differences.

You were founded by Protestants as well as a bourgeois, that is a business, revolution. And both reinforced one another and both strongly believed in personal experience.

Whereas we were founded by the Scottish and English Enlightenment and have had no revolution, neither bourgeois nor proletarian.

So we remain the children of the Aristocratic Enlightenment.

While you are the children of the Protestant Bourgeoise.

So you think being Aristocratic is superior?

Not only that, but I happen to know that your country was once a massive holding pen for prisoners.

So you're actually the children of Aristocrats and criminals.

 

[Athenian200]

So we remain the children of the Aristocratic Enlightenment.

While you are the children of the Protestant Bourgeoise.

How would you describe the difference between the two?

 

[Mole]

Not only that, but I happen to know that your country was once a massive holding pen for prisoners.

You seem to forget that you were a colony for one hundred and fifty years - and a penal colony to boot.

I think you are being disingenuous in forgetting you were a penal colony.

But after your eight year war of treachery (1775-1783), the Colonial Office could not longer send convicts to you, so they sent them to us.

And yet we both turned out OK.

 

[Mole]

So you think being Aristocratic is superior?

Each one of us thinks our own country is best.

However, in my case, I am right.

 

[Mole]

So you're actually the children of Aristocrats and criminals.

In our bilious moments, we like to say that our fellow Australians are either guards or prisoners.

 

[King sns]

Personal experience is what makes this site great.
If it wasn't for us all sitting around here and talking about personal experience, then what would be the point?
We would just make a book list of things to read and classes to take.
Personal experience is what we have- and its great to see all the viewpoints of real people- not just what we read in books or areas of expertise. (OR some random profound and original idea that we've just invented. In which case we'd be at the genius convention, not here.)

I do agree that quoting personal experience for an argument or as gospel can get awfully annoying! But, I guess that's just the nature of these kinds of discussions. (In my experience, anyways !!! )

If we were only allowed to talk about these great broad views that we've developed or had some area of expertise, then this site would be a pretty desolate land. (And a boring one at that!) We go to work and school to talk about things that we know for fact, right? Why not spew off some opinions and stories for fun?

(Excuse my dogma, by the way. I know this sets typologycentral back in it's broader mission to achieve larger social ends.)

 

[Thalassa]

Each one of us thinks our own country is best.

However, in my case, I am right.

ha ha ha...how ironic of you to point out that you think your personal experience is best

 

[Oom]

Wow, this thread exudes spite, I can feel it.

Who is to say that we can't just generalize more than we already are. Lets say we look at the even bigger picture. Humans evolved on this earth (or were created, pick your poison) and have made civilization. Thus cultures were created by settling into different areas of the globe. All of the cultures want to progress as a main source of survival and convenience. It is a selfish endeavor, but who is to say selfishness isn't the best path to bettering your position in life?

If you want to get back to the roots, the primal instincts and say personal experience is a bad thing then... have a nuclear holocaust.