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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Do you mean that literally, or as a metaphor for individual interpretation versus centralized interpretation?
    Both.

    For there are literal Protestant Churches and a literal Catholic Church.

    However they have been around for a very long time so a Protestant sensibility has developed as well as a Catholic sensibility.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Do you mean that literally, or as a metaphor for individual interpretation versus centralized interpretation?
    A metaphor is a comparison of relationships.

    And so in comparing the history of your fine country with mine, metaphors come into their own.

  3. #23
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Hoist on my own petard.
    ...and blow us both to the moon.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    But allowing everyone to have their own opinion is the opposite of Imperialism, which is why we like it.
    All empires are different.

    And the empire you betrayed in your eight year war of treachery in the 18th Century, was the British Empire.

    And the British Empire was a territorial empire, while your empire is an economic empire.

    But I admire your chutzpah by being spectacularly disingenuous in denying you are an empire.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    C'mon, we believe America is a force for good in the world, that is why we have been allies since 1904.

    What I am trying to say is beyond good and evil.

    I am very interested in comparative history. And particularly comparing the histories of North and South America with the history of Oz.

    And the comparison reveals vast similarities which only serve to highlight the differences.

    So we can learn to understand ourselves better by understanding one another.

    But a moralism doesn't take us very far in the direction of understanding.
    I agree with everything you're saying. That's why I'm telling you that America isn't as bad as it seems - there are plenty of us here who are interested in comparitive history and other cultures. We're just not the ones who get the most air play.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    All empires are different.

    And the empire you betrayed in your eight year war of treachery in the 18th Century, was the British Empire.

    And the British Empire was a territorial empire, while your empire is an economic empire.

    But I admire your chutzpah by being spectacularly disingenuous in denying you are an empire.
    I don't deny that the United States is an economic empire. I never said that it wasn't. It's part of the reason I'm so sympathetic to democratic socialism.

    But I don't see what that has to do with people being allowed to decide certain arguments (but of course not all issues) upon personal experience.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    ...and blow us both to the moon.
    And once again we find ourselves in space without a parachute between us.

    The outlines of your face are starting to become familiar as we fall towards the Earth.

    I don't know why you hang on to me so tightly - it is almost as though I have a parachute.

    And equally I don't know why I hang onto you so tightly - as I know you don't have a parachute.

    Call it a folie à deux if you like but here we are, once again, tête-à-tête.

  8. #28
    WTF is this dude saying? A Schnitzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is simply a dogma.
    So you believe there are innate ideas?

    Victor, I never took you for the type.
    It's usually the religious that hang onto Rationalism.
    But don't mind me, I couldn't understand a lick of what Leibniz was saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    sheesh humans! for realz

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    It's part of the reason I'm so sympathetic to democratic socialism.
    Just so that it is crystal clear - I don't support democratic socialism.

    Perhaps we have a confusion of terms.

    Our Labor Party is a social democratic party, it is not a democratic socialist party.

    Our Labor Party does not support socialism however it does support social democracy.

    I support liberal democracy as the least evil of the political systems. So I support both our Liberal Party and our Labor Party, as both our main parties are liberal democratic parties.

    However, as you know, Australia invented the Secret Ballot. And throughout the world, the Secret Ballot is known as the Australian Ballot.

    So, alas, I am not going to tell you who I vote for.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    But I don't see what that has to do with people being allowed to decide certain arguments (but of course not all issues) upon personal experience.
    It is because you were founded by Protestants who believed in the personal interpretation of the Bible.

    Of course you have now democratised and secularised Protestantism, but still you deeply and profoundly believe in personal interpretation and personal experience.

    And because you have forgotten the origins of your reliance on personal experience, it is all the more powerful.

    I mean, let's face it - an American is never more American than when they are alone.

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