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  1. #21
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    How did you last 6 years in a situation like that? When did you figure out that he had a problem?
    For the longest time I couldn't tell if he was mean or just really dumb, I didn't know if it was intentional and gave him the benifit of the doubt. I wasn't sure if he was capable of understanding the causes of his actions. I felt sorry for him and thought I could just show him there was a better way. Being naturally autonomous I wasn't that hurt by the lack of connection. This changed when he became continuious dead weight. I figured if you are going to be alone, you may as well not have to clean up after anyone else.

    I still think its sad that he can't empathize with people. I still occasionally get sucked into wanting to help him help himself. But then I interact with him, and I'm back to wanting to duct tape his mouth shut and tie him to a chair in an attempt to make him stop causeing selfish based chaos... all the fucking time....

    Dude that sucks about having to reset your bones. Times like that are why I believe everyone should know how to perform their own medical services, like giving yourself stitches, pulling your own wisdom teeth, and bone setting.

  2. #22
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    I still think its sad that he can't empathize with people. I still occasionally get sucked into wanting to help him help himself. But then I interact with him, and I'm back to wanting to duct tape his mouth shut and tie him to a chair in an attempt to make him stop causeing selfish based chaos... all the fucking time....
    I know this feeling all too well. You think if you just try harder, then you can make it work. But it's got nothing to do with you. It's still hard for me because of the family connection. I pretty much just avoided for the past decade, but now I'm slowly learning to accept and adapt. My siblings never had it as bad as I did because I had a huge rebellious streak and they just waited it out until they left for college or whatever. As long as she had her adoring fans, she never lashed out on them. But she and I hated each other with a severe passion. When I ran away from home at 15, she never attempted to find me. And I was happy about that.

    But my siblings suffered differently - she has such a stronghold in all of their lives now to the point where my sister has left men that my mother doesn't like because it's easier than the alternative. She ended up marrying one, with approval, but not in the style of wedding my mom had chosen. My mother sat through the whole ceremony and reception bawling her eyes out because my sister ruined her special day. The her, being my mother, of course. "this is not what I had planned for my child!!!"

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Dude that sucks about having to reset your bones. Times like that are why I believe everyone should know how to perform their own medical services, like giving yourself stitches, pulling your own wisdom teeth, and bone setting.
    Hahaha, I actually tried to give myself stitches once and it came out all lopsided and janky. But I was so proud of myself.

  3. #23
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    What purpose do classifications like narcissistic, borderline or antisocial personality disorder serve?

    Would these people still be considered disordered if we weren't living in a society?

    So is the problem really about not properly integrating into the societal framework rather than a disorder and are their mechanisns of survival as valid as any other outside society?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    What purpose do classifications like narcissistic, borderline or antisocial personality disorder serve?

    Would these people still be considered disordered if we weren't living in a society?

    So is the problem really about not properly integrating into the societal framework rather than a disorder and are their mechanisns of survival as valid as any other outside society?
    People who are not even educated about narcissist or sociopath can even tell something is different. Some react with admiration, others fear, still others pity.

    In my experience with a narcissist other people mocked him behind his back and called him pretentious or obnoxious, or paradoxically catered to him with unending flattery and narcissistic supply. I think I.grew up with someone who had traits of somatic narcissism, because I empathized with him after initial annoyance, and wanted to help him. Narcissists underneath are emotionally fractured people who were either spoiled or brutalized as children, usually a confusing mixture of both, and this person was aware of his emptiness, his contempt for other people, his buried pain and his frozen emotions, as well as his script of what he should do. It's easy to keep loving a narcissist as long as they identify with you, and you pity their emotional issues, because the abuse they dish out is usually convert gaslighting, turned around on the partner to make the partner act out the narcissistic rage they cannot themselves, they will manipulate the other person to act out, they have a hypnotic communication style that makes people question themselves. (For example constantly needing validation but abruptly acting like he didn't care, playing weird fucking head games that are extremely bizarre in retrospect, I was eternally needed but pushed away slightly as soon as supply was filled, why are you mad I am just joking etc.)

    The easiest thing to do is to hate narcissistic people because then you can't be susceptible to their abuse, and this is of course unhealthy in and of itself, but it can take effort to be more balanced because people who are susceptible to narcissists are often troubled themselves in some way.

  5. #25
    eye of the storm magpie's Avatar
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    I think my father might be one.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    What purpose do classifications like narcissistic, borderline or antisocial personality disorder serve?

    Would these people still be considered disordered if we weren't living in a society?

    So is the problem really about not properly integrating into the societal framework rather than a disorder and are their mechanisns of survival as valid as any other outside society?
    I don't think borderline belongs in the same grouping as narcissism and antisocial personality disorder. But I agree with you broadly - that any psychiatric diagnoses serve to further ostracize someone from society at worst or to force them to conform to more normative social behavior patterns at best.
    Likes Xann liked this post

  6. #26
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    ^^^
    Borderline and histrionic are still cluster b relationship disorders but yes only antisocial and narcissist lack empathy in a way that is shocking if you.let it be, if you can manage to love the person who is a narcissist then you just see how insecure they are about having their image of themselves shattered and how terrified they are of exploration of the water under their icy front...of course narcissistic personality disorder affects people of different personality types but what TG described about not moving unless they are uncomfortable or not learning until shit hits the fan, wow, true...but some openly rage and harm others and some are simply frozen


    @hel I reached my post limit but just want to add that knowing WHY someone is like that makes a.difference, when you can actually pinpoint traumatic events they shared with you at the age they seem emotionally frozen at...and if that person actually identified with you at one point and didn't completely objectify you, but also tolerated your drama and bullshit, it's easier to forgive them...from a distance. Being the person stupid enough to actually love them anyway is inadvisable though since they see themselves inherently unlovable. Narcissists are just...people. Some more severe than others. But yeah, from a safe distance.

  7. #27
    eye of the storm magpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    ^^^
    Borderline and histrionic are still cluster b relationship disorders but yes only antisocial and narcissist lack empathy in a way that is shocking if you.let it be, if you can manage to love the person who is a narcissist then you just see how insecure they are about having their image of themselves shattered and how terrified they are of exploration of the water under their icy front...of course narcissistic personality disorder affects people of different personality types but what TG described about not moving unless they are uncomfortable or not learning until shit hits the fan, wow, true...but some openly rage and harm others and some are simply frozen
    I know they're Cluster B. You enlightened me, remember?

    I think trying to love someone who is narcissistic can be incredibly difficult and hurtful in ways that ThatGirl explained nicely. And I think that narcissism is less a 'disorder' and more a series of complicated and vast sociological and personal events that led them to the place they are. It's not something that just struck out of nowhere, like a deathly illness. It has its reasons and pitying and acting loving and tender towards someone who will only hurt and manipulate you isn't kind... it's foolish.

    So yes, I think that psychiatric diagnoses have the potential to be incredibly harmful. And at the same time I also think someone who exhibits narcissism (because not everything needs to be medicalized) is also someone who is dangerous. Hurting yourself isn't an excuse to hurt others.
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