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  1. #21
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Everybody needs to watch that movie "What the bleep do we know"

    I think that the same concept of changing our attitudes and behaviors. I believe that any outlook or behavior can be changed over time with some work. I don't think that its a good idea for an introvert to suddenly try to go out and try to get out and talk to people and socialize and believe that they are suddenly going to get energy from it if they try hard enough. But if you slowly work on things and change your way of looking at things then your brain will slowly adapt, (just like any other part of the body) and can reconnect itself to react in a different way. I don't think that it would be easy to change from E to I or I to E this way, and most people would not put forward the time and effort to change their perceptions or personality, or whatever. But it is possible. Anything is possible.

    I also think that E/I would be easier to change than the other three preferences because there are more accessible ways of doing so.

    I'm a very balanced personality so can see different viewpoints of many different people, so that may also be why I think people can just change who they are. Someone of a stronger nature may say "hey, easier said than done, girl!"

    Who knows?

  2. #22
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowey1210 View Post



    I disagree with this, yes I believe that E/I is subject to baseline biological starting point, however you can change how your body gains and regains energy over time. Any behaviour whether it be skiing, talking, memorisation, or self-concept can be developed through educative experiences. If for instance I practice memorising objects for long and hard enough, I will eventually develop a skill for doing this by the construction of new neural pathways in the brain. Extraversion/Introversion I believe is developed similarly. I may be born an introvert, but if however I choose to think in an extroverted manner for a great period of time I will eventually develop the capacity, and even inclination to consider it as part of who I am.



    There is a great book out about this phenomena titled "The brain that changes itself", that discusses neuroplasticity with regards to how we think. It suggests that the brain itself is malleable, and as such the choices we make determine what we are. Perhaps I'm naively optimistic about the application of the notion of "free-will" ultimately determining our personality traits, however I do believe that this must be instrumental in some facet of who we are.
    Yea, this is what I'm getting at.

    I don't know how much literature is out there on this, but it is certainly a valid theory. We know virtually nothing about how the brain works, but this is kind of up-and-coming research material.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Anything is possible.
    I believe this too (not taken too literally). The question is, at what cost?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  4. #24
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    What the bleep clip
    (For anyone who has not seen this.)

    You say at what cost?

    Well, just a lot of work and heartache, I guess.

    And that's why no one changes.

  5. #25
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post

    Saying that S/N, T/F, J/P are more ingrained than E/I is an infantile notion. The former can fluctuate much more depending on our situation. E/I will always stay the same because it has biological foundations. Read some introvert books or look at some studies.
    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    Correct away, sir.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, Raz. (Perhaps I'm being infantile)

  6. #26
    WTF is this dude saying? A Schnitzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    What the bleep clip
    (For anyone who has not seen this.)

    You say at what cost?

    Well, just a lot of work and heartache, I guess.

    And that's why no one changes.
    Citing What the Bleep doesn't help the discussion
    What the Bleep Do We Know!? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Brain science currently isn't developed enough to answer whether MBTI is right or wrong. The only thing we have to go by is experience.

    In my experience introverts can be social and extroverts can keep to themselves. Some introverts I know are more social than other extroverts I know. There always seems to be a fundamental persuasion one way or the other. Being more social may balance an introvert out but I've never seen someone change their fundamental preference because of it.

    For example just because you've become more balanced doesn't mean you're no longer an ESFP.
    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    sheesh humans! for realz

  7. #27
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Schnitzel View Post
    Citing What the Bleep doesn't help the discussion
    What the Bleep Do We Know!? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Brain science currently isn't developed enough to answer whether MBTI is right or wrong. The only thing we have to go by is experience.

    In my experience introverts can be social and extroverts can keep to themselves. Some introverts I know are more social than other extroverts I know. There always seems to be a fundamental persuasion one way or the other. Being more social may balance an introvert out but I've never seen someone change their fundamental preference because of it.

    For example just because you've become more balanced doesn't mean you're no longer an ESFP.
    No, mbti is not confirmed by brain science-.

    (That's why in my original post I wrote "I believe that-") and it certainly hasn't been confirmed by that movie. This was an opinion statement.

    I think that what the bleep can possibly be applied here, though. Its not a fact that introversion can be changed to extraversion or visa versa just by thinking differently. But I think that if we can change our moods, we might be able to change who we are as well. (Would be a slow and painful process.) And of course if someone is a very strongly ingrained extrovert, they probably will not be an introvert in their lifetime, but I do think that its possible that they can make steps towards that if they really wanted to.

    I guess what i'm trying to get at, is that we know very little about how the brain works- as of now, and, anything is possible.

    (and actually, regarding the last comment, I've always been balanced! It hasn't changed.) So like I said, perhaps this has to do with why I've had this opinion.

    Watching What the Bleep for the first time a while ago supported this opinion for me, and I wanted to share.

  8. #28
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    As it's been said already, it wouldn't make sense to put in massive amounts of effort to change from one thing to another. Because no matter what you are, you'll still have to cater to your new needs. If you suddenly needed more stimulation and people to stay happy, it would seem like nothing but a burden.

    A goal that could be worthwhile would be to eradicate the needs all together, maybe. Get to a point in your brain's development where you can have your energy no matter what. Being alone never bores you or depresses you, and being active with other people never drains you. Or at least get to a point where it alternates.

    I'm pretty balanced, myself. I just have however much energy I need in order to do what I'm doing. If I'm with a bunch of people I can get excited and be high energy. But if I'm reading a book by myself for 3 hours, I don't really feel energetic, but I'm certainly enjoying myself and don't have any negative feelings or side-effects at all. I think anything could energize me and anything could drain me - it would all depend upon the attitude I took towards that thing. (And the attitude is always my choice.) I would consider it such a huge burden if I was too introverted or too extroverted. Desperately needing anything seems like a weakness that should be corrected to me.

    Preferences are great. It's the way of the world. But needs, yikes, that means you're missing something.
    "When a resolute young fellow steps up the great bully, the world, and takes him boldly by the beard, he is often surprised to find that it comes off in his hand, and that it was only tied on to scare away the timid adventurers." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  9. #29
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowey1210 View Post
    I
    On the other hand an aspect of our personality such as Perceiving/Judging is deeply imbedded into who we are. We don't choose to perceive, and we don't (most of the time!) choose to judge but ultimately we unconsciously do so regardless. I could labour over work assignments for days on end, but it wouldn't be something that I would be consciously wanting to do. Thinking/feeling, and intuition/sensing seem to have similar characteristics.
    Well if my feeling preference is deeply ingrained, it makes sense that whether that process is introverted or extroverted is also ingrained.

    I can conciously choose to use and develop either Fi or Fe but I can't choose which one I naturally prefer, and which one was the bedrock of my personality from childhood.

    I think of it like sexuality, a homosexual can conciously choose to have straight sex but that doesn't change the fact that their natural preference is for something else, if they think otherwise they are lying to themselves.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  10. #30
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Can it be that E/I does not make much sense to you because you are E ?

    Just a thought.
    +1.

    I don't know. This isn't the first time I've heard an extravert claim that E/I may be a choice. Methinks there are not many introverts who would claim the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    You can act any way that you want, but you can't change who you really are.
    That pretty much sums up my thoughts on this.

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