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  1. #61
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I think you have it reversed.
    No, Jenocyde has is exactly right.

    And this important because empathy is so uniquely helpful.

    However sympathy comes naturally while empathy, like literacy, has to be learnt.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    ...empathy I identify with you, sympathy I commiserate with you.
    Yes, this is elegant.

  3. #63
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    No, Jenocyde has is exactly right.

    And this important because empathy is so uniquely helpful.

    However sympathy comes naturally while empathy, like literacy, has to be learnt.
    Well you can assert that all you want, but every definition posted so far states that empathy is the "vicarious experience" of another's emotions. NOT an objective understanding of other's feelings without personally experiencing the feeling.
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  4. #64
    Senior Member MrME's Avatar
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    This argument has become ridiculous. "Empathy" feels the other person's feelings. "Sympathy" understands feelings. That's why people who feel other people's emotions are called empathic and not sympathetic.

    Common Errors in English
    empathy/sympathy

    Quotes from the site:
    If you think you feel just like another person, you are feeling empathy. If you just feel sorry for another person, you’re feeling sympathy.

    What's the Difference Between Sympathy and Empathy?
    What is the Difference Between Sympathy and Empathy?

    Grammar Mishaps: Sympathy vs. Empathy
    Grammar Mishaps: Sympathy vs. Empathy

    Sympathy vs. Empathy
    Sympathy versus Empathy

    What is Empathy?
    What is empathy?

    And finally...

    Wikipedia entry for Empathy:
    Empathy is the capability to share your feelings and understand another's emotion and feelings. It is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes," or in some way experience what the other person is feeling. Empathy does not necessarily imply compassion, sympathy, or empathic concern because this capacity can be present in context of compassionate or cruel behavior.

    Wikipedia entry for Sympathy:
    Sympathy is a social affinity in which one person stands with another person, closely understanding his or her feelings. The word derives from the Greek ????????? (sympatheia)[1], from ??? (syn) "together" + ????? (pathos), in this case "suffering" (from ????? - pascho, "to be affected by, to suffer"). It also can mean being affected by feelings or emotions. Thus the essence of sympathy is that one has a strong concern for the other person. Sympathy exists when the feelings or emotions of one person are deeply understood and appreciated by another person.
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  5. #65
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Well you can assert that all you want, but every definition posted so far states that empathy is the "vicarious experience" of another's emotions. NOT an objective understanding of other's feelings without personally experiencing the feeling.
    Be nice to Victor... from your own account:

    Both empathy and sympathy are feelings concerning other people. Sympathy is literally 'feeling with' - compassion for or commiseration with another person. Empathy, by contrast, is literally 'feeling into' - the ability to project one's personality into another person and more fully understand that person. ... You feel empathy when you've "been there", and sympathy when you haven't.

    As I've said to Halla, I don't feel what he's feeling now, but I've been there. Call it what you want.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrME View Post
    "I feel your pain," is empathy. "I'm sorry for your loss," is sympathy.
    Well, it's interesting.

    Empathy means, I understand how you are feeling, and it may be sorrow or joy or pain or pleasure, but I don't necessarily feel it.

    So this leaves open the possibility that you may understand what they are feeling and feel it yourself.

    However this last possibility is not open to a therapist seeing many people in a day.

    So empathy is necessary for a therapist to function as well as being uniquely helpful to the client.

    But as I say, empathy is not natural - it needs to be learnt.

  7. #67
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrME View Post

    Wikipedia entry for Empathy:
    Empathy is the capability to share your feelings and understand another's emotion and feelings. It is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes," or in some way experience what the other person is feeling. Empathy does not necessarily imply compassion, sympathy, or empathic concern because this capacity can be present in context of compassionate or cruel behavior.

    Wikipedia entry for Sympathy:
    Sympathy is a social affinity in which one person stands with another person, closely understanding his or her feelings. The word derives from the Greek ????????? (sympatheia)[1], from ??? (syn) "together" + ????? (pathos), in this case "suffering"(from ????? - pascho, "to be affected by, to suffer"). It also can mean being affected by feelings or emotions. Thus the essence of sympathy is that one has a strong concern for the other person. Sympathy exists when the feelings or emotions of one person are deeply understood and appreciated by another person.
    I corrected your highlights.

    I'm so done with this. Like I said, call it what you want.

  8. #68
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Be nice to Victor... from your own account:

    Both empathy and sympathy are feelings concerning other people. Sympathy is literally 'feeling with' - compassion for or commiseration with another person. Empathy, by contrast, is literally 'feeling into' - the ability to project one's personality into another person and more fully understand that person. ... You feel empathy when you've "been there", and sympathy when you haven't.

    As I've said to Halla, I don't feel what he's feeling now, but I've been there. Call it what you want.
    Where in that passage does it say anything about not feeling what the other person is feeling when one is empathizing? You can very well understand what someone else is feeling and feel it at the same time.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Be nice to Victor...
    And you know how much I like nice people, as you can see from my post below -

    Oh, How I Love Nice Girls.


    My mother always told me to keep myself nice.

    And I have.

    I even have, "Nice"*, biscuits with my tea.

    I like being nice and I like doing what my mother tells me.

    Fortunately most girls are also told to keep themselves nice.

    So I immediately have rapport with nice girls.

    We sit together tête-à-tête dipping our, "Nice", biscuits into our warm tea.

    And the more we dip, the warmer we get.

    We speak of our mothers and how much we love them and how much they love us.

    Until it seems we are just as nice as one another.

    "Would you care for another, "Nice", biscuit?", I ask.

    "Only if you will put it to my lips", she says nicely.

    Oh, how I love nice girls because before long she is putting a, "Nice", biscuit to my lips - and we give one another nice biscuits turn and turn about.

    Until the world's made rosy and the world's made cosy by togetherness.


    * Here, we have, "Nice", biscuits.
    "Nice", is pronounced, "niece", as in the city of Nice in France.
    However, "Nice", biscuits are really nice.

  10. #70
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Where in that passage does it say anything about not feeling what the other person is feeling when one is empathizing? You can very well understand what someone else is feeling and feel it at the same time.
    I know that I CAN very well understand and feel at the same time. It's just not a prerequisite for empathy. The passage say fully understand, not fully feel, right? And can you understand that sympathy is feeling with?

    Good lord, you are relentless. I have an idea - take it up with the professors who taught me this in my writing courses, and my screenwriting courses, and my psychology courses - I can PM you their names and email if you want. I don't give a shit, really.

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