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  1. #31
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I never thought I would be paralyzed in decision making because of this, because I never believed that there were such things as decisions that had to be made soley with emotions, and that could not be setup in a spreadsheet.
    How you feel about something bears a weight that can certainly be assigned a value as much as any other concrete fact.

    Just because you're not connected to your emotions doesn't mean that you don't have them, don't need them or don't already act on them without even realizing it. Perhaps you are making decisions that you believe are detached but you are simply neglecting to tally emotions as a factor. This IS a weakness; you need to realize when your emotions are tugging at you in less tangible ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    So, my homework is to develop my connectivity with my emotions so that I can become a better developed person.
    How could this not help you become a more rounded individual? Are you sugggesting that no one try to develop their "weaker" areas? Or that feelings have less importance? I think you will find it a helpful exercise that will strenghten you overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I'm officially a FEEL-o-tard!!!
    You're not a feel-o-tard. You assign feeling less value and are less comfortable with emotions because they tire you figuring them out. That doesn't mean you can't or don't feel, and wouldn't benefit from at least trying the exercise your therapist suggests.

  2. #32
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I respectfully disagree with you about the therapist's intentions, Victor. I think that therapists also take sides - they are only human. Which is apparent in the therapist not being straight with him for months (not wanting to hurt his feelings, not wanting to make it *seem* like he was taking sides, not being able to "speak" the same language as his client...)

    As far as me, I probably do take sides because I only hear one side and because I can easily identify with what has been described. I may not have the best solutions, but I can say what has worked for me in the past.

    Maybe other methods may work better for everyone else involved, but shouldn't people also focus on what's best for themselves? I don't know, maybe you're right about the steps taken, but I don't agree that learning more about yourself and how you deal with problems leads to dysfunction. I think dysfunction stems from being unaware of how you affect others, and how you affect yourself.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I respectfully disagree with you about the therapist's intentions, Victor. I think that therapists also take sides - they are only human. Which is apparent in the therapist not being straight with him for months (not wanting to hurt his feelings, not wanting to make it *seem* like he was taking sides, not being able to "speak" the same language as his client...)

    Maybe other methods may work better for everyone else involved, but shouldn't people also focus on what's best for themselves? I don't know, maybe you're right about the steps taken, but I don't agree that learning more about yourself and how you deal with problems leads to dysfunction. I think dysfunction stems from being unaware of how you affect others, and how you affect yourself.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I respectfully disagree with you about the therapist's intentions, Victor. I think that therapists also take sides - they are only human. Which is apparent in the therapist not being straight with him for months (not wanting to hurt his feelings, not wanting to make it *seem* like he was taking sides, not being able to "speak" the same language as his client...)

    As far as me, I probably do take sides because I only hear one side and because I can easily identify with what has been described. I may not have the best solutions, but I can say what has worked for me in the past.

    Maybe other methods may work better for everyone else involved, but shouldn't people also focus on what's best for themselves? I don't know, maybe you're right about the steps taken, but I don't agree that learning more about yourself and how you deal with problems leads to dysfunction. I think dysfunction stems from being unaware of how you affect others, and how you affect yourself.
    The moment you said, "I respectfully disagree", I said, "Oh, oh".

    Then I remembered you said you respect someone who can call you out, and I said, "Phew".

    So a good therapist has rapport with their client.

    And a bad therapist will take sides.

    A dysfunctional family is one where they take sides against one another.

    And a happy family is where they listen empathically to one another and work creatively together.

    I must admit when you said you disagree with me, "respectivefully", I wondered what is would be like if you disagreed with me with disrespect.

  5. #35
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The moment you said, "I respectfully disagree", I said, "Oh, oh".
    Hahaha...

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Then I remembered you said you respect someone who can call you out, and I said, "Phew".
    Someone who pays attention to me!! Nice! Thanks!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    So a good therapist has rapport with their client.

    And a bad therapist will take sides.
    I agree. And one could argue (I could argue) that this therapist does not have a good rapport based on him wanting to say something for months and not doing so. You could say that this is merely his method, but Halla mentioned that he has been spot on in other areas, so that lead to my deduction. But of course, I could be wrong... Not saying he's a bad therapist, just that he's human. The exercise may help Halla, and it may not. But I feel (from my own experience) that it is very important in the healing process to not feel like a deviant. Sometimes, having someone else say "Hey, that happens to me, too!" can be the difference between depression and motivation. I know this from my own experience, and I am very thankful for this forum in this regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    A dysfunctional family is one where they take sides against one another.

    And a happy family is where they listen empathically to one another and work creatively together.
    Very true. People take sides when they can't understand where the other person is coming from. Sometimes, before my recent "self awareness", I would also take sides - against myself. I would validate everyone else and take all the blame. Maybe this is not Halla's problem, but I can see myself in his shoes saying "where did I go wrong?, where did I fail?" It's not a nice feeling. Being able to identify who you are, what your needs are, how you react and to realize that you are normal, makes it easier to explain yourself and your actions to another person. And that alone helps the walls come down. This is when you realize that there are no sides at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I must admit when you said you disagree with me, "respectivefully", I wondered what is would be like if you disagreed with me with disrespect.
    And you will never know.

  6. #36
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Bottom line is though, if I KNOW how I feel about something, and am asked to describe it, I can blurt it out with exacting detail, in speech or writing. It's the whole figuring out how I feel about something that has become the real thorn in my side.
    So why not try this exercise? Your desire is to understand yourself better. This might help. Why not make an attempt?

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Identifying my feelings will never change the fact that I made my decision.
    But would your feelings change any decisions that you made? No doubt sometimes yes, sometimes no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Maybe this is not the time to develop Fi, you make a damn good point there. I cannot succumb to emotions, that is for damn sure, if I did and felt my choice to be wrong later, I would serioulsy beat myself up over it very badly, and I'm not good at that, and don't want to risk needing to do it. Thanks Jen, seriously.
    Since we don't know the decision you are facing, it is hard to ascertain how much wieght you should attach to your feelings. But if it is a life-altering one, I fail to see how your emotions don't have at least some small fraction of relevance. Why are you afraid to suss them out?

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Which is apparent in the therapist not being straight with him for months (not wanting to hurt his feelings, not wanting to make it *seem* like he was taking sides, not being able to "speak" the same language as his client...).
    I re-read Halla's posts. There doesn't seem to be any issue with the therapist not being "straight" with Halla, at least according to Halla. A therapist's job is to be a mirror, and often we don't want to look into this reflection, don't want to see ourselves clearly. In these instances, sometimes things must repeat frequently before they sink in.

    I think more is being read into the therapist's approach than is warranted here.

  7. #37
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    But would your feelings change any decisions that you made? No doubt sometimes yes, sometimes no..
    Nope. I agonize over decisions for a long time before acting - sometimes months, but once I come to a decision, it's final.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I think more is being read into the therapist's approach than is warranted here.
    Possibly. But as Halla mentioned, we see some things in similar ways and I personally need someone to be a little more direct with me.

    And it's obvious that he took his own feelings into consideration, or he wouldn't have started the whole process of decision making to begin with. Some people need to identify what those feelings are. Some are just content with knowing they exist and knowing that they were strong enough to make you *think* about the next step.

    Hey, different strokes for different folks...

  8. #38
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Nope. I agonize over decisions for a long time before acting - sometimes months, but once I come to a decision, it's final.
    Jen, how much of a factor are emotions in your decision-making process, generally speaking?

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Possibly. But as Halla mentioned, we see some things in similar ways and I personally need someone to be a little more direct with me.
    LOL, perhaps the therapist did everything but hit Halla on the head with it, who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    And it's obvious that he took his own feelings into consideration, or he wouldn't have started the whole process of decision making to begin with.
    Agreed; that is why it is puzzling to me now that Halla is hesitant to try this exercise; it could represent an opportunity for real emotional growth.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    ...it is puzzling to me now that Halla is hesitant to try this exercise; it could represent an opportunity for real emotional growth.
    And it is a very simple and obvious exercise.

  10. #40
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Look, Halla is a grown man and he will do what's best for himself. He posted this because he wanted feedback on the methods. So I gave him my interpretation. He can take it or leave it.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    LOL, perhaps the therapist did everything but hit Halla on the head with it, who knows?
    Halla said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    He laughed and said he had been trying to tell me as such for a few months now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I too would have preferred a more direct means of dleivery.[/b]
    ...and I agreed with him. Nothing more to it than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Jen, how much of a factor are emotions in your decision-making process, generally speaking?
    A feeling is felt - it's either good or bad, that's pretty much the extent of it. If it's good, I roll with it. If it's bad, I act on it. So of course feelings drive decisions. But I won't act even on a good feeling if it doesn't make logical sense to do so - I think we're all like that. Someone may be attractive, but that doesn't mean it makes sense to date that person. I think of all the pros and cons, the effect my decision will have on others, and the effect my decision will have on myself. Then I choose what seems the most logical and what seems will create the less damage down the road, for all parties involved. Later, I reflect on everything and I am then able (most often) to pinpoint what made the feeling good or bad. But the name of the feeling itself doesn't matter. The point is I felt something that spurred me to action.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Agreed; that is why it is puzzling to me now that Halla is hesitant to try this exercise; it could represent an opportunity for real emotional growth.
    Depends. But in Halla's case, he has more than just his emotions to worry about. Not getting into any details, but sometimes it's better to act and take care of stuff and worry about how you feel about it later. Of course, it's his life and his choice. He just asked for opinions and I gave him mine. End of story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And it is a very simple and obvious exercise.
    It may be simple for you. But it would not be that simple for me.

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