Fear of Rejection

[jenocyde]

Victor/Blue - reading the dialogue between you two made me want to pose an honest question to you both. (sorry for derailing..)

It is natural for some to respond to an issue with an immediate feeling. It is less natural for others to do the same. Some respond with an immediate thought. I know most people who are F dominant say that every thought is just an emotion unidentified, but I personally don't believe that to be true. And a lot of those who are T dominant think that most emotions are the result of overthinking, which I'm sure most F types wouldn't agree with. Both types would argue that the other type is damaged in some way, for lack of a better term, and will see each other's responses as negative.

Blue - it seems that when Victor poses an honest feeling to you, that offends your sensibilities. Victor - when Blue responds with an honest thought, it seems to offend your feelings.

My questions are: Do you think it's even possible for a T type to identify each and every feeling that could potentially be under the surface, in order to communicate with an F type? Is it even possible for an F type to take a more detached stance in order to communicate effectively? Basically, is fighting your basic nature a positive or negative step? Do we really have to become each other in order to understand each other?

 

[Salomé]

Victor/Blue - reading the dialogue between you two made me want to pose an honest question to you both. (sorry for derailing..)

It is natural for some to respond to an issue with an immediate feeling. It is less natural for others to do the same. Some respond with an immediate thought. I know most people who are F dominant say that every thought is just an emotion unidentified, but I personally don't believe that to be true. And a lot of those who are T dominant think that most emotions are the result of overthinking, which I'm sure most F types wouldn't agree with. Both types would argue that the other type is damaged in some way, for lack of a better term, and will see each other's responses as negative.

Blue - it seems that when Victor poses an honest feeling to you, that offends your sensibilities. Victor - when Blue responds with an honest thought, it seems to offend your feelings.

My questions are: Do you think it's even possible for a T type to identify each and every feeling that could potentially be under the surface, in order to communicate with an F type? Is it even possible for an F type to take a more detached stance in order to communicate effectively? Basically, is fighting your basic nature a positive or negative step? Do we really have to become each other in order to understand each other?

I'm not offended. I'm amused.
I'm not going to pretend to understand what someone feels or doesn't feel on an impersonal platform like this. I don't honestly care. All I can respond to is what they say. What I perceive their thought process to be. I do this for clarification or for contradiction, if I disagree.

There is history here.

 

[jenocyde]

I'm not offended. I'm amused.
I'm not going to pretend to understand what someone feels or doesn't feel on an impersonal platform like this. I don't honestly care. All I can respond to is what they say. What I perceive their thought process to be. I do this for clarification or for contradiction, if I disagree.

There is history here.

Sure, I know there is history and I don't want to get involved. I was just curious why it's so difficult between you two, which led me to think about why it's so difficult with me and certain other people on this forum. Your answer makes sense, from a T perspective.

 

[wolfy]

I'm wondering how big of a role fear of rejection plays in your relationships and what it stems from. NTs are notorious for withholding their deeper feelings from others and can take a long time to truly open up but shut down in a matter of seconds if the other persons reaction is unexpected or unwanted.

I don't think I have any fear of rejection. At least not any more. I did, as I suppose we all do in my teens. I do tend to move forward and then back off with people but that is more to do with trying get a feel for the other person than any fear of rejection.

So what does it take for someone to get you to open up? What role does fear of rejection play in your relationships (not just romantic ones)?

If you have built a certain level of trust with me I will open up. I don't feel any need to open up though. Fear of rejection doesn't really play a part in my relationships.

And how is this linked to your self image?

This is going to sound egotistical but I just simply feel I am an overall friendly likeable person and am comfortable in my own skin so if a relationship doesn't work then it's just one of those things.

 

[Salomé]

Sure, I know there is history and I don't want to get involved. I was just curious why it's so difficult between you two, which led me to think about why it's so difficult with me and certain other people on this forum. Your answer makes sense, from a T perspective.

If you look at the usual pattern it goes something like this:

1. Victor says something wise and insightful, coupled with something a bit :crazy:.

2. I commend him on the former and take issue with the latter.

3. Instead of responding like a rational person, he suggests that I disagree with him because I was abused as a child.

There's really nowhere to go from there.

 

[jenocyde]

Precisely what I was getting at. That part in #1 that is a bit off, may just seem a bit off to us because we can't identify with the "F" part of it. I'm sure he feels a lot of our (collectively) statements are also a bit off and he takes issue with it - by way of emotional hurt.

I'm sure you two are already far gone, since you've already said that you don't care. I just want to know if there's anything I personally can do in the future to avoid situations like this without compromising who I am, and who the other person is. I don't expect you or anyone else to have an actual answer or plan of action. Like I said, it just sparked my curiosity because your conversation felt so familiar to me. Perhaps I should have started a new thread...

 

[Halla74]

There's really nowhere to go from there.

Actually you can lower yourself and take on last jab at him if simply call him a Nazi. That's about the only card universally lower to play then someone dropping the "you said that because of your childhood" statement. Just in case you want to go there someday.

 

[jenocyde]

Actually you can lower yourself and take on last jab at him if simply call him a Nazi. That's about the only card universally lower to play then someone dropping the "you said that because of your childhood" statement. Just in case you want to go there someday.

Yeah, I agree. Playing the "damaged" card is really low. I'll try that Nazi thing, hilarious!

 

[Totenkindly]

Blue - it seems that when Victor poses an honest feeling to you, that offends your sensibilities. Victor - when Blue responds with an honest thought, it seems to offend your feelings.

My questions are: Do you think it's even possible for a T type to identify each and every feeling that could potentially be under the surface, in order to communicate with an F type? Is it even possible for an F type to take a more detached stance in order to communicate effectively? Basically, is fighting your basic nature a positive or negative step? Do we really have to become each other in order to understand each other?

Lots of T and F people get along just fine.

I think when one is obsessed with maintaining a particular style and image or portraying oneself a certain way, communication goes out the window. People from different persuasions get along because they speak for the benefit of the listener, not for the benefit of themselves.

 

[jenocyde]

Lots of T and F people get along just fine.

I think when one is obsessed with maintaining a particular style and image or portraying oneself a certain way, communication goes out the window. People from different persuasions get along because they speak for the benefit of the listener, not for the benefit of themselves.

I think you may be right. I make more of an effort with some and less with others... I don't know if that was specifically what I was trying to ask, though. I have to think of a better way to rephrase the question, later when I get home. But thanks, that was insightful.

 

[Salomé]

Precisely what I was getting at. That part in #1 that is a bit off, may just seem a bit off to us because we can't identify with the "F" part of it. I'm sure he feels a lot of our (collectively) statements are also a bit off and he takes issue with it - by way of emotional hurt.

I'm sure you two are already far gone, since you've already said that you don't care. I just want to know if there's anything I personally can do in the future to avoid situations like this without compromising who I am, and who the other person is. I don't expect you or anyone else to have an actual answer or plan of action. Like I said, it just sparked my curiosity because your conversation felt so familiar to me. Perhaps I should have started a new thread...

To say someone who fears rejection, (in a thread where a lot of people have confessed to that fear) has bad character, is off according to any standard, I would suggest.

Actually, Victor isn't an NF. He's a self-confessed INTP, though he doesn't believe in any of this MBTI rubbish and is here to show us the error of our ways.
Too far gone? Not from my perspective, the strongest emotion he has ever raised in me is frustration, and I don't even feel that anymore, because I understand the pattern and can see where it's heading. Discovering patterns is what interests me most. It's why I'm still here. And I value Victor's contribution, more than most posters, in fact.

 

[Halla74]

Lots of T and F people get along just fine.

I think when one is obsessed with maintaining a particular style and image or portraying oneself a certain way, communication goes out the window. People from different persuasions get along because they speak for the benefit of the listener, not for the benefit of themselves.

Hey Jennifer! I agree with you that many T/F folks get along fine with one and other, but must admit there are times when it doesn't go so good.

I have been called an "overly analytical selfish bastard" for responding to an F's questions in my default T manner. I take the abstract, break it into pieces, rank order them, and then decipher the details of each. I don't mean any harm by it, but Jee-Whiz it pisses some F folks off!

Part of this could be S/N differences too though, the part about going from abstract to detail...

Cheers!

 

[sculpting]

My questions are: Do you think it's even possible for a T type to identify each and every feeling that could potentially be under the surface, in order to communicate with an F type? Is it even possible for an F type to take a more detached stance in order to communicate effectively? Basically, is fighting your basic nature a positive or negative step? Do we really have to become each other in order to understand each other?

I don not think this is always possible. Maybe best to leave it at an understanding that you are most likely misunderstanding what they are actually intending to say and build in a certain forgiveness level automatically.

If you make the assumption they are communicating the same way you are, then the message may make the entirely wrong statement when perceived. Not that I know anyone who has done that lately...

This is so much easier in person when accompanied by visual cues.

 

[sculpting]

It's not the same thing. Fear of intimacy is tied up with fear of losing autonomy, of losing identity, of shutting off other options, of being exposed.
Fear of rejection is more primitive, as Victor has suggested, it stems from a survival mechanism. You can outthink it.

I think (hehe, sometimes I try) there may be some type dependency here. Do you really want to try and out think it? I can out think it and saveguard against it but if I do so I also safeguard against the potential happiness as well. It's not one or the other, they go hand in hand. It seems to be like a two way tunnel. But again this may be an enfp or maybe just a puppy thing...

 

[jenocyde]

This is so much easier in person when accompanied by visual cues.

It's funny you say that about visual cues... Don't know if this applies to all NFs, but the ENFPs that I know always have problems with the way I express myself in writing, because they can't understand my tone. They always want to have a face to face meeting with me. Whereas, I find there is no room for error or histrionics in the written word. (No offense to any ENFPs - it's just my perception of what hystrionics are, the same way my words are perceived in your minds as "mean" or "cold" when I think I'm being "clear" and "straightforward".)

I generally get uncomfortable when anticipating a meeting with an ENFP about a serious matter face to face. It actually causes me a lot of anxiety because I (rightfully) assume that next next hour or 2 of my life will be spent on an emotional rollercoaster. It really affects me and I always walk into the meeting already on the defensive and I put a wall up.

(also puppy, I read what u wrote and will respond once I have more time to absorb it...)

 

[sculpting]

It's funny you say that about visual cues... Don't know if this applies to all NFs, but the ENFPs that I know always have problems with the way I express myself in writing, because they can't understand my tone. They always want to have a face to face meeting with me. Whereas, I find there is no room for error or histrionics in the written word. (No offense to any ENFPs - it's just my perception of what hystrionics are, the same way my words are perceived in your minds as "mean" or "cold" when I think I'm being "clear" and "straightforward".)

I generally get uncomfortable when anticipating a meeting with an ENFP about a serious matter face to face. It actually causes me a lot of anxiety because I (rightfully) assume that next next hour or 2 of my life will be spent on an emotional rollercoaster. It really affects me and I always walk into the meeting already on the defensive and I put a wall up.

(also puppy, I read what u wrote and will respond once I have more time to absorb it...)

this is where type can be handy, as the same words from an INTP and a an ENFJ mean two drastically different things. My customers are almost exclusively NTs, bout 40% INTP/40% ENTP and 10% INTJ. The emails can be quite to the point sometimes.

Notice all the extra words and conditional statements an enfp will throw in, as well as emoticon things. This drives my entp buddy nuts. She's like, why dont you just say what you want to say. (It also takes us like ten minutes to say goodbye on the phone)

(think on it but please give critical feedback-also note I am trying work towards describing entp#1 who is a total nutter, so take w grain of salt)

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I was just curious why it's so difficult between you two

It's pretty interesting, I agree. I think blue likes to keep people at a distance because that's where she can play with them. She needs a degree of anonymity in order for her humor to work effectively, because it involves a lot of teasing, which sometimes gets expressed as debating (same resistant "energy"). Victor, on the other hand, is more sensitive and derives more enjoyment from feeling close to people. So one pushes while the other one pulls and their relationship remains unstably stable.

 

[jenocyde]

Notice all the extra words and conditional statements an enfp will throw in, as well as emoticon things. This drives my entp buddy nuts. She's like, why dont you just say what you want to say. (It also takes us like ten minutes to say goodbye on the phone)

The phone thing drives me nuts. When I say I have to go, that means I have to motherf'n go!!! Arrrgghh... And after about my first week on this board, I learned very quickly to use emoticons, against my own personal comfort zone. It feels fake and unnatural to me, but I do it so as not to offend.

So one pushes while the other one pulls and their relationship remains unstably stable.

Very observant, you are.

 

[INTJMom]

I’m particularly interested in NTs perspectives but anyone can chip in.

I'm wondering how big of a role fear of rejection plays in your relationships and what it stems from. NTs are notorious for withholding their deeper feelings from others and can take a long time to truly open up but shut down in a matter of seconds if the other persons reaction is unexpected or unwanted.

So what does it take for someone to get you to open up? What role does fear of rejection play in your relationships (not just romantic ones)? And how is this linked to your self image?

I used to be entirely consumed by fear of rejection.
In my opinion, it is directly connected to self-image/self-esteem... mine was very low.

It caused me to sabotage myself. I would do things to make people reject me. In my opinion, I did it so I could be in control of the rejection... because of the intense fear of the pain of rejection...
Since I was so sure I was going to be rejected eventually, I wanted to at least be in control of when I got rejected. Stupid... when you think about it. But even though I KNEW... AT THE TIME... that I was sabotaging myself, I couldn't stop myself.

Someone who would love me unconditionally,
and not let me push them away,
would earn their way to my "eternally devoted to you" list.

What I need to get me to open up is someone who will quietly and patiently wait for me to talk.
It takes a few minutes for my feelings to surface.
Asking questions can help, too.
Empathy is really helpful.
I never need someone to FIX my problems.
I already know what to do... usually.
I need someone to validate my feelings.

 

[sculpting]

The phone thing drives me nuts. When I say I have to go, that means I have to motherf'n go!!! Arrrgghh... And after about my first week on this board, I learned very quickly to use emoticons, against my own personal comfort zone. It feels fake and unnatural to me, but I do it so as not to offend.



.

Not to chunk my comrades under the bus, but how many enfps can you actually tolerate at the same time? I work with one-that's it. she drives me crazy. she is so sensitive (such irony) and our Fi's do not agree on what the most idealistic answer is.


Um, rejection, yes, the point of the thread......

Sometimes do you find that fear of rejection sneaks up on you and prevents from doing something on a subtle unconcious level or are you always aware of it's effects?