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  1. #41
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Victor/Blue - reading the dialogue between you two made me want to pose an honest question to you both. (sorry for derailing..)

    It is natural for some to respond to an issue with an immediate feeling. It is less natural for others to do the same. Some respond with an immediate thought. I know most people who are F dominant say that every thought is just an emotion unidentified, but I personally don't believe that to be true. And a lot of those who are T dominant think that most emotions are the result of overthinking, which I'm sure most F types wouldn't agree with. Both types would argue that the other type is damaged in some way, for lack of a better term, and will see each other's responses as negative.

    Blue - it seems that when Victor poses an honest feeling to you, that offends your sensibilities. Victor - when Blue responds with an honest thought, it seems to offend your feelings.

    My questions are: Do you think it's even possible for a T type to identify each and every feeling that could potentially be under the surface, in order to communicate with an F type? Is it even possible for an F type to take a more detached stance in order to communicate effectively? Basically, is fighting your basic nature a positive or negative step? Do we really have to become each other in order to understand each other?

  2. #42
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Victor/Blue - reading the dialogue between you two made me want to pose an honest question to you both. (sorry for derailing..)

    It is natural for some to respond to an issue with an immediate feeling. It is less natural for others to do the same. Some respond with an immediate thought. I know most people who are F dominant say that every thought is just an emotion unidentified, but I personally don't believe that to be true. And a lot of those who are T dominant think that most emotions are the result of overthinking, which I'm sure most F types wouldn't agree with. Both types would argue that the other type is damaged in some way, for lack of a better term, and will see each other's responses as negative.

    Blue - it seems that when Victor poses an honest feeling to you, that offends your sensibilities. Victor - when Blue responds with an honest thought, it seems to offend your feelings.

    My questions are: Do you think it's even possible for a T type to identify each and every feeling that could potentially be under the surface, in order to communicate with an F type? Is it even possible for an F type to take a more detached stance in order to communicate effectively? Basically, is fighting your basic nature a positive or negative step? Do we really have to become each other in order to understand each other?
    I'm not offended. I'm amused.
    I'm not going to pretend to understand what someone feels or doesn't feel on an impersonal platform like this. I don't honestly care. All I can respond to is what they say. What I perceive their thought process to be. I do this for clarification or for contradiction, if I disagree.

    There is history here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #43
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I'm not offended. I'm amused.
    I'm not going to pretend to understand what someone feels or doesn't feel on an impersonal platform like this. I don't honestly care. All I can respond to is what they say. What I perceive their thought process to be. I do this for clarification or for contradiction, if I disagree.

    There is history here.
    Sure, I know there is history and I don't want to get involved. I was just curious why it's so difficult between you two, which led me to think about why it's so difficult with me and certain other people on this forum. Your answer makes sense, from a T perspective.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    I'm wondering how big of a role fear of rejection plays in your relationships and what it stems from. NTs are notorious for withholding their deeper feelings from others and can take a long time to truly open up but shut down in a matter of seconds if the other persons reaction is unexpected or unwanted.
    I don't think I have any fear of rejection. At least not any more. I did, as I suppose we all do in my teens. I do tend to move forward and then back off with people but that is more to do with trying get a feel for the other person than any fear of rejection.

    So what does it take for someone to get you to open up? What role does fear of rejection play in your relationships (not just romantic ones)?
    If you have built a certain level of trust with me I will open up. I don't feel any need to open up though. Fear of rejection doesn't really play a part in my relationships.


    And how is this linked to your self image?
    This is going to sound egotistical but I just simply feel I am an overall friendly likeable person and am comfortable in my own skin so if a relationship doesn't work then it's just one of those things.

  5. #45
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Sure, I know there is history and I don't want to get involved. I was just curious why it's so difficult between you two, which led me to think about why it's so difficult with me and certain other people on this forum. Your answer makes sense, from a T perspective.
    If you look at the usual pattern it goes something like this:

    1. Victor says something wise and insightful, coupled with something a bit :crazy:.

    2. I commend him on the former and take issue with the latter.

    3. Instead of responding like a rational person, he suggests that I disagree with him because I was abused as a child.

    There's really nowhere to go from there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #46
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Precisely what I was getting at. That part in #1 that is a bit off, may just seem a bit off to us because we can't identify with the "F" part of it. I'm sure he feels a lot of our (collectively) statements are also a bit off and he takes issue with it - by way of emotional hurt.

    I'm sure you two are already far gone, since you've already said that you don't care. I just want to know if there's anything I personally can do in the future to avoid situations like this without compromising who I am, and who the other person is. I don't expect you or anyone else to have an actual answer or plan of action. Like I said, it just sparked my curiosity because your conversation felt so familiar to me. Perhaps I should have started a new thread...

  7. #47
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    There's really nowhere to go from there.
    Actually you can lower yourself and take on last jab at him if simply call him a Nazi. That's about the only card universally lower to play then someone dropping the "you said that because of your childhood" statement. Just in case you want to go there someday.

  8. #48
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Actually you can lower yourself and take on last jab at him if simply call him a Nazi. That's about the only card universally lower to play then someone dropping the "you said that because of your childhood" statement. Just in case you want to go there someday.
    Yeah, I agree. Playing the "damaged" card is really low. I'll try that Nazi thing, hilarious!

  9. #49
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Blue - it seems that when Victor poses an honest feeling to you, that offends your sensibilities. Victor - when Blue responds with an honest thought, it seems to offend your feelings.

    My questions are: Do you think it's even possible for a T type to identify each and every feeling that could potentially be under the surface, in order to communicate with an F type? Is it even possible for an F type to take a more detached stance in order to communicate effectively? Basically, is fighting your basic nature a positive or negative step? Do we really have to become each other in order to understand each other?
    Lots of T and F people get along just fine.

    I think when one is obsessed with maintaining a particular style and image or portraying oneself a certain way, communication goes out the window. People from different persuasions get along because they speak for the benefit of the listener, not for the benefit of themselves.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #50
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Lots of T and F people get along just fine.

    I think when one is obsessed with maintaining a particular style and image or portraying oneself a certain way, communication goes out the window. People from different persuasions get along because they speak for the benefit of the listener, not for the benefit of themselves.
    I think you may be right. I make more of an effort with some and less with others... I don't know if that was specifically what I was trying to ask, though. I have to think of a better way to rephrase the question, later when I get home. But thanks, that was insightful.

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