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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    When one is unfamiliar with ecstasy, as you are MacGuffin, ecstasy will appear out of the ordinary - it will appear extraordinary.

    But consider, you enter the hyonogogic trance twice a day as you fall asleep and as you awake. But you take it entirely for granted. You take it so much for granted, it has become invisible.

    And I am sure you enter many other trances during the day, but they are invisible to you.

    So when a trance finally becomes visible to you, you call it ecstasy. And of course it is not the slightest bit mundane to you, because it is so unfamiliar.
    Yes, that's what I'm getting at. It is very unfamiliar. It does not just happen to me, and even when I try for it I often fail.

  2. #22
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    I would like to say writing, but the muse is not home very often, so it's more of a conscious effort. I find flow states more common when simply listening to music, which usually puts me on a creative train of thought. I'm almost always in a flow state while I philosophize, but that's because I normally wait for inspiration to strike.

  3. #23
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Nothing = flow.

    I've noticed a curious pattern... It is mostly the Ps that indicate they experience one-ness with something. The only J indicate one-ness with another individual. In other words, not the environment or the activity.

    It seems like the INXJ views the self as being apart from the environment... ethnocentrism (not in a bad way)... just that we focus on ourselves as we interact with the environment rather than focusing on the environment and seeing self merge with it.

    An interesting question would be how EJs view the world and "flow".
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Yes, that's what I'm getting at. It is very unfamiliar. It does not just happen to me, and even when I try for it I often fail.
    There may be good reason why you fail.

    For instance, your unconscious may be protecting you from a previous trauma.

    Failing for you may be very important. Failing may be your royal road into your unconscious.

    So cherish your failure.

    Speak to your failure tenderly as you would speak to a child you loved.

    How lucky you are to have your unconscious speak to you in such a clear and definite way. How lucky you are that your unconscious is looking after you so well and has brought you all the way to us in safety.

    So how natural for you to care for your unconscious in turn. And listen as a warm and tender parent listens to a loving child.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    There may be good reason why you fail.

    For instance, your unconscious may be protecting you from a previous trauma.

    Failing for you may be very important. Failing may be your royal road into your unconscious.

    So cherish your failure.

    Speak to your failure tenderly as you would speak to a child you loved.

    How lucky you are to have your unconscious speak to you in such a clear and definite way. How lucky you are that your unconscious is looking after you so well and has brought you all the way to us in safety.

    So how natural for you to care for your unconscious in turn. And listen as a warm and tender parent listens to a loving child.
    Eh, no. No trauma.

  6. #26
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Eh, no. No trauma.
    Well then, perhaps you are being protected from unfamiliarity. Every animal fears the unknown and we are no different.

    Of couse when you enter a flow acitivity you put your critical mind aside for a while. This does leave you vulnerable in the flow activity.

    So to engage in a flow activity it is necessary to be in a safe environment.

    And this is the job for your critical mind.

    The job of your critical mind is to find a safe environment for you to experience flow.

    In such an environment you don't have to try to experience flow - all you need to do is listen.

  7. #27

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    Flow is the perfect balance between your skills and the challenge at hand.
    You can create flow even in the most mundane of activities. I've experienced flow washing the dishes. Most often I experience it in the gym.
    Where you have too much skill you increase the challenge.
    Where there is too much of a challenge you improve your skill.

    Just like in a well constructed game.


  8. #28
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Engagement is flow? It doesn't feel like it for me...
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Flow is the perfect balance between your skills and the challenge at hand.
    You can create flow even in the most mundane of activities. I've experienced flow washing the dishes. Most often I experience it in the gym.
    I've lost myself in routine tasks, but I don't call it flow. I'm usually not present in the moment. I'm off thinking about something.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Engagement is flow? It doesn't feel like it for me...
    Basically...yeah, full engagement with the task at hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I've lost myself in routine tasks, but I don't call it flow. I'm usually not present in the moment. I'm off thinking about something.
    If you are thinking about something else you are not fully engaged.

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