MB & Personality disorders(& near disorders)

[artie]

I've been wondering what relationships there are, if any, between MB personality types and personality disorders such as narcissistic, paranoid, anti-social or obsessive compulsive disorder.

(I've been wondering since reading a facinating book called "Emotional Vampires" by DR Al Bernstein which allows you to classify people along the lines of either having a full blown disorder or disorders (fairly rare) or having aspects of one or more (universal). (For some reason he only covers 6 of the 12 recognised disorders)).

I thought it was interesting I came out as above average in Paranoia (and nothing else) in Bersteins test and am INFJ "the conspiracy theorist" with Myers Briggs. Pretty much the same.

Could it be some types are more likely to suffer from narcissism, anti-social (psychopathy) etc. (I won't speculate on other types, in deferrence to political correctness I'll only talk about my own type, maybe let others talk about themselves).

There are 12 personality disorders and 16 MB types so I guess there can't be one for each.

One important difference between Berstein and what little Myers-Briggs I have encountered so far is he is very positive about the possiblity of changing your vices (over years with effort) while I get the feeling with MB people are stuck with their possibly sick personalities, which may well be more true but is also more depressing.

 

[wildcat]

I've been wondering what relationships there are, if any, between MB personality types and personality disorders such as narcissistic, paranoid, anti-social or obsessive compulsive disorder.

(I've been wondering since reading a facinating book called "Emotional Vampires" by DR Al Bernstein which allows you to classify people along the lines of either having a full blown disorder or disorders (fairly rare) or having aspects of one or more (universal). (For some reason he only covers 6 of the 12 recognised disorders)).

I thought it was interesting I came out as above average in Paranoia (and nothing else) in Bersteins test and am INFJ "the conspiracy theorist" with Myers Briggs. Pretty much the same.

Could it be some types are more likely to suffer from narcissism, anti-social (psychopathy) etc. (I won't speculate on other types, in deferrence to political correctness I'll only talk about my own type, maybe let others talk about themselves).

There are 12 personality disorders and 16 MB types so I guess there can't be one for each.

One important difference between Berstein and what little Myers-Briggs I have encountered so far is he is very positive about the possiblity of changing your vices (over years with effort) while I get the feeling with MB people are stuck with their possibly sick personalities, which may well be more true but is also more depressing.

PTypes - Correspondence of PTypes, Keirsey, Enneagram, Psychiatric, and Astrological Types

The vice is the potential virtue; the virtue is the potential vice.
They are not different things.

 

[Economica]

I'll go with Narcissistic PD for INTJ:

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by other special people
4. requires excessive admiration
5. strong sense of entitlement
6. takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7. lacks empathy
8. is often envious or believes others are envious of him or her
9. arrogant affect.

Since we don't have any ESFPs here to point the finger at themselves I nominate them for Histrionic PD:

1. is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention
2. interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
3. displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
4. consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self
5. has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
6. shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
7. is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances
8. considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are.

 

[Totenkindly]

Avoidant = INFx

1. Avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection
2. Is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked
3. Shows restraint within intimate relationships because of the fear of being shamed or ridiculed
4. Is preoccupied with being criticized or rejected in social situations
5. Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy
6. Views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others
7. Is unusually reluctant to take personal risks or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing

INFJ is probably more likely, since they have more expectations on how things SHOULD be playing out.


Schizoid = INTP

* Emotional coldness, detachment or reduced affection.
* Limited capacity to express either positive or negative emotions towards others.
* Consistent preference for solitary activities.
* Very few (if any) close friends or relationships, and a lack of desire for such.
* Indifference to either praise or criticism.
* Taking pleasure in few, if any, activities.
* Indifference to social norms and conventions.
* Preoccupation with fantasy and introspection.
* Lack of desire for sexual experiences with another person.

Dependent = ISFx

* D – Difficulty making everyday decisions
* E – Excessive lengths to obtain nurturance and support from others
* P – Preoccupied with fears of being left to take care of self
* E – Exaggerated fears of being unable to care for himself or herself
* N – Needs others to assume responsibility for his or her life
* D – Difficulty expressing disagreement with others
* E – End of a close relationship is the beginning of another relationship
* N – Noticeable difficulties in initiating projects or doing things on his or her own
* T – “Take care of me” is his or her motto

ISFJs tend to have their "closure orientation" helping them, but if they have been undermined in developing that skill as a child, they easily can end up dependent.

 

[prplchknz]

Is their a personality order that goes "If I read any other personality disorder, I'm convinced I have that disorder?" I think I have that. What type would that apply to?

 

[Lookin4theBestNU]

^^^^^
I keep reading them and I think I have about 4 of them now.

 

[ptgatsby]

Is their a personality order that goes "If I read any other personality disorder, I'm convinced I have that disorder?" I think I have that. What type would that apply to?

It depends on what degree of hypochondria you have (ie: are you afraid of death? Past medical issues? ). In any case, it shouldn't really correlate strongly to any MBTI type in particular, far as I know. It should only really relate to emotional stability/neuroticism.

It is generally considered based in environment more than personality (from the little I have read about it).

 

[Totenkindly]

^^^^^
I keep reading them and I think I have about 4 of them now.

lol... yes, that happens quite a bit.

(Especially with Narcissists: "You, you, you -- it's always about YOU, isn't it?!")

How I look at it is that everyone can have these sorts of feelings included under a particular disorder, at some time or another; but those with an actual disorder are consistently stuck in that pattern of behavior and are to the point where their lives are literally falling apart (i.e., they cannot cope at all) or are on the verge of it consistently.

 

[spirilis]

Haha yes, my psychology II teacher in highschool warned us about that. Don't apply the disorders to yourself necessarily as most people will find one or more disorders describe them.

The way I see it--if a disorder's symptoms apply to you in a way that is negative and detrimental to your life somehow, then it is a problem and needs to be resolved. Otherwise, why bother?

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Haha yes, my psychology II teacher in highschool warned us about that. Don't apply the disorders to yourself necessarily as most people will find one or more disorders describe them.

The way I see it--if a disorder's symptoms apply to you in a way that is negative and detrimental to your life somehow, then it is a problem and needs to be resolved. Otherwise, why bother?

Whew that's a relief. That list of bad traits under the "ENTP disorder" is a lot longer than the lists under the other disorders.

 

[The Ü™]

I'll go with Narcissistic PD for INTJ:

I think Narcissistic Personality Disorder is probably more common in ENTx.

INTJ would be better suited for Schizoid or Schizotypal. Schizoid PD, in particular, can also be narcissistic, but like the INTJ, the Schizoid's narcissism but it's more id based. But anyway, here's how I matched them up:

PERSONALITY DISORDERS AND TYPE
Schizotypal: INTJ
Schizoid: INTP
Paranoid: ENTP, ENFP

Histrionic: ESFP, ESFJ, ENFP, ENFJ
Borderline: ESFP, ESTP
Antisocial: ISTP, INTJ
Narcissistic: ENTJ, ENTP

Avoidant: INFP, INFJ
Dependent: ISFJ, ISFP, INFJ, INFP
Obsessive-Compulsive: ESTJ, ISTJ

 

[wildcat]

I think Narcissistic Personality Disorder is probably more common in ENTx.

INTJ would be better suited for Schizoid or Schizotypal. Schizoid PD, in particular, can also be narcissistic, but like the INTJ, the Schizoid's narcissism but it's more id based. But anyway, here's how I matched them up:

PERSONALITY DISORDERS AND TYPE
Schizotypal: INTJ
Schizoid: INTP
Paranoid: ENTP, ENFP

Histrionic: ESFP, ESFJ, ENFP, ENFJ
Borderline: ESFP, ESTP
Antisocial: ISTP, INTJ
Narcissistic: ENTJ, ENTP

Avoidant: INFP, INFJ
Dependent: ISFJ, ISFP, INFJ, INFP
Obsessive-Compulsive: ESTJ, ISTJ

ESTJ is not Obessessive-Compulsive, pal. Anything but.
It is Passive-Agressive.

The leisurely type. The easy touch. The pillar of the community.
The friend of friends. The insider. The good brother.
The sharer. The drawler. The one with the boys. The trustee. The referee.

Enneagram Institute of Johannesburg



Beware.

 

[The Ü™]

ESTJ is not Obessessive-Compulsive, pal. Anything but.
It is Passive-Agressive.

The leisurely type. The easy touch. The pillar of the community.
The friend of friends. The insider. The good brother.
The sharer. The drawler. The one with the boys. The trustee. The referee.

Enneagram Institute of Johannesburg



Beware.

I think Passive-Aggressive would correspond better to IxFP. Fi types tend to be really good at subtle manipulation, which characterizes passive-aggression.

An ESTJ is more openly aggressive, not passive. And since they have Si for their auxiliary function, a neurotic ESTJ would likely pay strict adherence to the rules. Oh yes, the ESTJ most definitely corresponds to Obsessive Compulsive PD.

 

[wildcat]

I think Passive-Aggressive would correspond better to IxFP. Fi types tend to be really good at subtle manipulation, which characterizes passive-aggression.

An ESTJ is more openly aggressive, not passive. And since they have Si for their auxiliary function, a neurotic ESTJ would likely pay strict adherence to the rules. Oh yes, the ESTJ most definitely corresponds to Obsessive Compulsive PD.

I dislike to manipulate anybody. I am not good at the art at all. No, Suh.
And I am the Fi type. The INTP.

The ESTJ is openly aggressive. Yes. And the ESTJ is subtly aggressive.
The ESTJ is aggressive all over, pal.

You suggest the IFP. The artist. The poet. The antibureaucrat. The bohemian.

Nope.
I am sorry, pal.

 

[artie]

"The way I see it--if a disorder's symptoms apply to you in a way that is negative and detrimental to your life somehow, then it is a problem and needs to be resolved. Otherwise, why bother?"


I am inclined to agree with this except as someone said, "if someone is driving themselves mad they have a mental disorder, if they are driving everyone else mad they have a personality disorder".

Affects on other people are an issue too (you may have meant this). The problem is most PD types are the last ones likely to want to change or recogise they have a problem.

I guess it is more of an issue of others managing their impact or getting out as avoidant INFJs like me would prefer to do. I guess my interest stems more from this angle.

 

[wildcat]

Yes. But I was saying a prejudice plays the bulk of the part.
The type is the PD, seen from another angle.
Like, according to the Church, I am a power hungry Anesthetic Schizoid.
It depends on who looks and who is being watched upon.

 

[artie]

ESTP "natural killers" ??

These are very interesting comments thanks. I'm still very keen to hear of any "hard" science on MB & Personality Disorders.

Some thing I found interesting re ESTP and anti-social personality was an essay "Natural Killers-Turning the Tide of Battle" by Major David Pierson, US Army (it's on the net somewhere). He says the military use MB tests to find ESTPs as they are likely to be the only type naturally able to kill and keep killing. He says being ESTP does not mean someone is a psychopath or a killer but it is a good start.

I hope I haven't hurt any ESTPs feelings. I really really hope actually!

It is not hard to see why this would have been an essential talent for any viable society throughout so much of history and prehistory. Even today for most if not all States. It would be nice to think it's slowly becoming redundant.

 

[Maverick]

Paranoid personality disorder: INTJ, INFJ, ENTP, ENFP
Schizoid personality disorder: IxTx
Schizotypal personality disorder: INTx
Antisocial personality disorder: xxTP
Borderline personality disorder: ExFx
Histrionic personality disorder: ExFx
Narcissistic personality disorder: ExTx
Avoidant personality disorder: IxxP
Dependent personality disorder: xxFx
Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder: xxxJ

 

[wildcat]

Toss the coin.