User Tag List

Results 1 to 8 of 8

  1. #1
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,690

    Default The importance of math, statistics and facts in life

    In real life I have one trait that people fiind quite annoying.


    That trait is that I want facts displayed as numbers or with numbers.
    Without that in most cases the "facts" are pretty much useless.
    Since I can't create any models and projections based on words like "many, small, changing, .......Etc".


    In many cases it happened that someone accused me of something. But I requested the exact data for their claims and I request the exact time when it happened and how many times did it happen.
    What they can't show since they don't have that information and they don't have it because they were not paying real attention.
    What they are doing is accusation based on their convictions and their picture of me. So I start the counter-attack that they base their actions on convictions. When I do that the person automaticly thinks I am mean towards them. I am sorry but I don't accept arguments " You did something wrong" or "You are doing something wrong" if you can't make a clear argument.
    The main reason why I am "mean" to other people is that tomorrow they can claim the opposite of what they are claiming today. What is probably the byproduct of moodswings in many cases.
    I have concluded that because the words and opinions that people say usually match their mood.
    Because of this I don't give weight to many words which are said by certain people. Even if it is designed as friendly advice. But that is another story.



    So people in real life think that I am insensitive and calculated son of bitch and they are annoyed by the fact that I carry the title with pride.
    I live in a society where calculations and plans are considered to be flaws.
    Even my own parents think that I should be be more spontaneous and sensitive. I admit that in many cases my conversations can sound like police investigations if I think that topic is important. But to a large degree this is because I have to pull out the information out of people.




    Also may time it happend that people we sure that they know something and how to solve some hypotetical case/problem. But once you place the entire thing into numbers and do the calculation it becomes obvious that they have missed for 6 levels of size. What means 1 000 000 times.
    Which is not small error. That happened once to me but people in general seem to have the trait that they don't check out the idea in the form of numbers.

    Just because something looks as a good or as a convincing idea on verbal level, that does no mean that this is actually a good idea.
    I would even dare to say that some people are afraid of me because they know that I can make analyse them and display the flaws cleary.


    As someone once said
    The every equation you place in your book will dimidiate the number of sold copies.




    So, where is the problem? Why people have so many problems with this approach? I think that my requests are not so irrational.
    The only thing I want are clear arguments and something with which I will be able to calculate/work with.
    Is this/my approach too impersonal for you?

  2. #2
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,422

    Default

    It depends on who you discuss with.

    I, for one, appreciate the 'cold' mathemetical approach. But I can see why SFJ's, for example, would get really frustrated by it.

    That and many people get their ego dent if they start to realize you are correct. And may distrust their own 'logic'. No one likes their own logic to be questioned, and most of all especially not by themselves.

    One way of circumventing the frustrating drag of all this is by putting your opinion out in a shell and break it to them with a twist. Sharp humor, or flower it up a bit. And they might follow your approach without feeling bad about themselves.

  3. #3
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Posts
    3,424

    Default

    Antisocial One, are you talking about "The importance of math, statistics, and facts" in idle conversation? Because when most people want to have a relaxing conversation, you're right, they tend to avoid using math, statistics, etc. Usually when you start getting too technical, they feel that you are ruining their fun.

    Maybe one way to compromise (if you would want to engage in such conversation described above) could be to only give a non-numerical answer at first. The kind you mentioned--"many, small, changing,..." Then, if they want you to explain further, or if the knowledge you are holding back becomes crucial to make the other person understand your point, then you could finally give the cold numbers.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  4. #4
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    It depends on who you discuss with.

    I, for one, appreciate the 'cold' mathemetical approach. But I can see why SFJ's, for example, would get really frustrated by it.

    That and many people get their ego dent if they start to realize you are correct. And may distrust their own 'logic'. No one likes their own logic to be questioned, and most of all especially not by themselves.

    One way of circumventing the frustrating drag of all this is by putting your opinion out in a shell and break it to them with a twist. Sharp humor, or flower it up a bit. And they might follow your approach without feeling bad about themselves.
    Trust me this does not make so big difference. I already use this "tricks" and there is no too big difference if I don't.
    The thing is that people are not analytical as I am.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Antisocial One, are you talking about "The importance of math, statistics, and facts" in idle conversation? Because when most people want to have a relaxing conversation, you're right, they tend to avoid using math, statistics, etc. Usually when you start getting too technical, they feel that you are ruining their fun.

    Maybe one way to compromise (if you would want to engage in such conversation described above) could be to only give a non-numerical answer at first. The kind you mentioned--"many, small, changing,..." Then, if they want you to explain further, or if the knowledge you are holding back becomes crucial to make the other person understand your point, then you could finally give the cold numbers.
    I admit that I analyse too much. But people don't like this even in serious converstaions. If I would think as you say then I will almost never be be able to say what is on my mind.

    The thing is that talking to me is spending alot of persons energy and that is the actual problem.

  5. #5
    Senior Member me_plus_one's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Posts
    194

    Default

    I don't understand why a conversation with mathematical terms and statistics wouldn't be a relaxing or fun one.

    I don't appreciate the approach listed above, I kind of live my life on momentarily impulses, but I can understand it and I also find it pretty stupid not to be able to process math and statistics during current conversation.

  6. #6
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Just to express things from the other POV... I have difficulties providing exact numbers and figures because I couldn't remember the details. I can recall studies people have conducted and tell you about the overall results/interpretation based on those results, but I can't tell you the exact numbers. Those things never stays on my mind because they're "not as important" to me. For me to get that for you would take far too much work... aka attempting to recall where I heard of / read the study from... back track from my memory to which course it's from... pick through my notes to find the article reference... there's no point for all this work for a casual convo.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  7. #7
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Just to express things from the other POV... I have difficulties providing exact numbers and figures because I couldn't remember the details. I can recall studies people have conducted and tell you about the overall results/interpretation based on those results, but I can't tell you the exact numbers. Those things never stays on my mind because they're "not as important" to me. For me to get that for you would take far too much work... aka attempting to recall where I heard of / read the study from... back track from my memory to which course it's from... pick through my notes to find the article reference... there's no point for all this work for a casual convo.
    I don't mind that at all. Especially since it increases the chances that you will give me the right information. There is a way too much numbers out there to remember them all.
    But the problem is that many people in my society simply don't like to think in terms of numbers and it is not their natural tendency to do that.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Kitkat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    11

    Exclamation

    I don't completely understand the whole statement "Also may time it happend that people we sure that they know something and how to solve some hypotetical case/problem. But once you place the entire thing into numbers and do the calculation it becomes obvious that they have missed for 6 levels of size. What means 1 000 000 times.
    Which is not small error. That happened once to me but people in general seem to have the trait that they don't check out the idea in the form of number."

    Okay, so as to mathematics, statistics, and facts. I am a huge fan of facts. I appreciate statistics. And math has its uses, very good uses too. Give me the facts any day...but, please, realize that though statistics may be factual and usually interesting...they're not always necessary, accurate, or pertinent to a conversation in my opinion. As for mathematics/the cold-hearted approach to topics, I appreciate a little compassion...because if we were meant to act like computers, then why the heck do we have feelings? Facts/statistics/mathematics are fantastic, but they're also subject to a person's perception of what can be accepted as factual/pertinent. I guess I'm just trying to say that broadening your communication abilities is a very useful tool. If you work on verbal skills in expressing your mathematical solutions...more people would be capable of understanding and participating in a worthy conversation...without negating the math/facts/logic.

    Disclaimer: I'm quite sleep-deprived as I'm writing this...so I may not agree completely with my above post when I come back and look at it after I get some sleep.
    -Kitkat

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-14-2010, 04:52 PM
  2. [MBTItm] The bane of your existence and intuitve narcissism
    By proteanmix in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 161
    Last Post: 11-12-2010, 11:24 AM
  3. The importance of the temperaments in MBTT
    By Ezra in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-06-2008, 12:38 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO