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  1. #71
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    So that's who has been stalking me! I just thought he was an old homeless guy quoting Leviticus.
    Yeah, he's sneaky that way. (He calls me on the phone during election season and tries to get me to vote Republican.... but I know it's just a ploy for attention.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #72
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Based on seeing the number of NT/ST religious thinkers and the number of soulful, passionate atheists, my inclination is to suspect it has more to do with environment, culture, and indoctrinization than personality type. Personality can certainly play a role, but people who can move away from religion as a child or teen typically have a much different introduction to religion than those who wait until adulthood or never leave. For example, when I was a teen I was at a religious boarding school where I was influenced 24/7 and was required to live up to many rules regulating both social and personal values and there were punishments if you did not do this. These institutions were designed specifically to keep the young people in the church. It is as much a measure of their external introduction to religion as it is a measure of internal perspective. Most people do not realize this. It has been rare to encounter people who are willing to hold a position based solely on what makes sense as opposed to what makes them feel stronger or superior to others.
    Or that has helped them make sense of life. With my family, they don't understand that OTHER viewpoints/beliefs would have been just as helpful in helping them keep their lives together... they attribute everything good in life itself (theirs and other peoples' lives) to the influence of their own particular object of worship, rather than understanding that those are merely details that triggered a more universal process of psycho/spiritual growth that can encompass different faith systems.

    ("It changed my life! It should change yours too... and nothing else will... and if it doesn't work, you weren't really trying!")

    I'll say that I became "saved" when I was five. I did that because something about the mystical and spiritual appealed to my sensibilities. And my life has been a quest to "see beyond," ever since, although for a long time I attributed it to a particular faith system. But really, I realized I'm far more of an experiential thinker and believer, rather than one who derives truth from an external authority; things have to make SENSE to me. I'm fine with ambiguity, but what I do perceive has to hook together coherently with the data points.

    And now, to try to stay on thread topic here, it's hard to follow one's inclinations when one's entire subculture is dead set against it. I was never confused when I was by myself, it was only when I had to be around them that I suffered... because I knew exactly what being myself and believing my own beliefs would cost me, and how it would shake up other people's worlds too.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #73
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Based on seeing the number of NT/ST religious thinkers and the number of soulful, passionate atheists, my inclination is to suspect it has more to do with environment, culture, and indoctrinization than personality type. Personality can certainly play a role, but people who can move away from religion as a child or teen typically have a much different introduction to religion than those who wait until adulthood or never leave. For example, when I was a teen I was at a religious boarding school where I was influenced 24/7 and was required to live up to many rules regulating both social and personal values and there were punishments if you did not do this. These institutions were designed specifically to keep the young people in the church. It is as much a measure of their external introduction to religion as it is a measure of internal perspective. Most people do not realize this. It has been rare to encounter people who are willing to hold a position based solely on what makes sense as opposed to what makes them feel stronger or superior to others. People, however rational, who make fun of religious people have a personal feeling of superiority invested in their position of being non-religious. Their position makes sense, but also satisfies the personal need to feel strong and secure. It seems as though this drives many conclusions even when people are not aware of it. When a person doesn't have a feeling of superiority associated with their belief, it isn't much fun to look down on others since they are a reminder of various possibilities for oneself.
    Yeah under different environmental factors, I can't be sure that I would have strayed from religious thought as early as I did. My family, and seemingly, everyone around me was Catholic only in name. I got zero reinforcement at home and little at Church when we did end up going. So there was just a vague and weak societal message of belief being offered to me, like through the media.

    I don't think I have a feeling of superiority or that I'm stronger than believers. In my mind I separate the people from the positions and opinions they hold, unless they are particularly extreme, which can't help but color my view of them. I can make fun of someone's positions and opinions, and that could very well signify that I think my opinions are superior or better reasoned, but it doesn't mean I think of them as lesser people.

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    homo-loving sonovagun anii's Avatar
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