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  1. #11
    Member lexiphanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyz22 View Post
    i would theorize that someone must have a great awareness of themselves before they are able to perceptive about another.
    This.

    The more crap filters you perceive the world through, the less you'll be able to truly understand another persons motivations and actions.

  2. #12
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    If T is objective oriented in their associations with new people, do you not think that limits their perceptions to only T? And if that is the case, how can you properly perceive F, if your ultimate goal is to understand F. T cannot perceive F because F appears to T as illogical. Dominant T must develop F, in order to increase their inherent understanding of the function, in order to properly perceive F subjectively.


    I agree with you on everything else

    Hey there! That's nice we agree on lots of stuff!

    I will admit up front that I'm pretty sure I have very little F-ing ability (no pun intended) to properly perceive Feeling type perceptions.

    I'm going to play with your words for the sake of being curious and difficult:

    SINCE YOU SAID:

    T cannot perceive F because F appears to T as illogical. Dominant T must develop F, in order to increase their inherent understanding of the function, in order to properly perceive F subjectively.

    DOES THAT MEAN:

    F cannot perceive T because T appears to F as insensitive/impersonal/cold/etc.. Dominant F must develop T, in order to increase their inherent understanding of the function, in order to properly perceive T subjectively.

    (I just switched the F's and T's)

    ??? Is my twisting of your words also a vlaid statement???

    -Alex

  3. #13
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexiphanic View Post
    This.

    The more crap filters you perceive the world through, the less you'll be able to truly understand another persons motivations and actions.
    Where can I buy crap filters? I want some to see if it changes my perception of all the bullshit I'm surrounded by!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Hey there! That's nice we agree on lots of stuff!

    I will admit up front that I'm pretty sure I have very little F-ing ability (no pun intended) to properly perceive Feeling type perceptions.

    I'm going to play with your words for the sake of being curious and difficult:

    SINCE YOU SAID:

    T cannot perceive F because F appears to T as illogical. Dominant T must develop F, in order to increase their inherent understanding of the function, in order to properly perceive F subjectively.

    DOES THAT MEAN:

    F cannot perceive T because T appears to F as insensitive/impersonal/cold/etc.. Dominant F must develop T, in order to increase their inherent understanding of the function, in order to properly perceive T subjectively.

    (I just switched the F's and T's)

    ??? Is my twisting of your words also a vlaid statement???

    -Alex

    It's funny you say that. I had an idea T might be confused by what I said, so I edited my original post to include both POVs, but I guess you read before I had finished:

    On the other side of the fence, if F attempts to perceive T subjectively, rather than its' true objective nature, F will always perceive T as cold and shallow, therefore disregarding T as a whole because F lacks true understanding of T's objectivity.

    Since we essentially came out with the same idea, I think we're on the same wavelength here.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexiphanic View Post
    This.

    The more crap filters you perceive the world through, the less you'll be able to truly understand another persons motivations and actions.
    Am I correct in understanding that "crap filters" implies a person who limits their perception using only their dominant functions?

  6. #16
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    It's funny you say that. I had an idea T might be confused by what I said, so I edited my original post to include both POVs, but I guess you read before I had finished:

    On the other side of the fence, if F attempts to perceive T subjectively, rather than its' true objective nature, F will always perceive T as cold and shallow, therefore disregarding T as a whole because F lacks true understanding of T's objectivity.

    Since we essentially came out with the same idea, I think we're on the same wavelength here.
    Hey! That's very cool, thanks for clearing that up, seriously!

    In all honesty, the T/F perception issue is a big one from what I can tell. I am ESTP; my wife is INFJ - we are TOTAL 100% MBTI opposites. Half the time when we look at each other like the other is an alien, it is because of T/F perception issues, such as:

    I'm always like: "What on Earth are you trying to say? Can you give me a specific example instead of the vague disconnected high-level theory you just blurted out?"

    ...and she's typically saying to me: "Jesus, that totally oversimplifies what I was talking about. You can be a cold, selfish bastard sometimes."

    BUT, not to stray off topic too badly, despite our respective issues in understanding each other, we both have our own functional means of perceiving other people as we need to. A really weird way of citing that distinction I guess.

    Cheers!

    -Alex

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Hey! That's very cool, thanks for clearing that up, seriously!

    In all honesty, the T/F perception issue is a big one from what I can tell. I am ESTP; my wife is INFJ - we are TOTAL 100% MBTI opposites. Half the time when we look at each other like the other is an alien, it is because of T/F perception issues, such as:

    I'm always like: "What on Earth are you trying to say? Can you give me a specific example instead of the vague disconnected high-level theory you just blurted out?"

    ...and she's typically saying to me: "Jesus, that totally oversimplifies what I was talking about. You can be a cold, selfish bastard sometimes."

    BUT, not to stray off topic too badly, despite our respective issues in understanding each other, we both have our own functional means of perceiving other people as we need to. A really weird way of citing that distinction I guess.

    Cheers!

    -Alex
    Wow! You guys really are complete opposites. I'm curious how you ended up in that relationship.

    I'd say you're lucky to have such a close connection to someone so different from you...something I certainly envy. It's like you're each others' catalyst for forcing yourselves to think of things from a different point of view in order to avoid massive conflict and destruction of something you both cherish dearly. Since understanding likely doesn't come easy and quick, you afford each other a lot of time to be calm and open to understand, which with a stranger you probably wouldn't get.

    As a result, you have a better understanding of how the other side works and you can better relate to everyone you come across in your daily life.

    Now I have a much better idea why you seem like such a happy, balanced, and mature person.

    Thanks for sharing that Alex.

    Edit: I think that hypothetical situation was exactly what we were getting at here. You were trying to objectify her subjectivity. I guess in order to really get it, you have to stop thinking the way you normally would, step into her mind and try to think the way she does. Once you grasp that understanding from the other side, you realize the important aspects of the idea, and you can come back to apply that to your thinking and situation.

  8. #18
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Wow! You guys really are complete opposites. I'm curious how you ended up in that relationship.
    We were both 20 and in college, she was in 3 of my classes my first semester at a new school, I sat next to her in every class, and we got to know each other. Love at first sight for me honestly, I had to patiently win her over. Interestingly enough, outside of mutual physical attraction, what we shared in common then (and still now) is all non-MBTI stuff. For instance, both of us are fitness fanatics, eat nutritious foods, like nature, were biology majors, were down to Earth and not pretentious people, liked to travel, etc. At 20, that is really a big chunk of what I knew of myself if I think about it; I had no idea that I was "ESTP" or that she was "INFJ." But people who have known me my whole life have said "You haven't changed a damn bit since you were three years old."

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    I'd say you're lucky to have such a close connection to someone so different from you...something I certainly envy. It's like you're each others' catalyst for forcing yourselves to think of things from a different point of view in order to avoid massive conflict and destruction of something you both cherish dearly. Since understanding likely doesn't come easy and quick, you afford each other a lot of time to be calm and open to understand, which with a stranger you probably wouldn't get.
    You hit that nail right on the head with the powerful downward stroke of a heavy hammer. Believe me, we have our moments, as all long term couples do, but our periods of misunderstanding have been diverse and at times deep rooted, and before we did any self discovery (some of which included us paying to both take a professional MBTI test) and examined ourselves and our
    innate dispositions, some of the reasons became clear as to why we differed as strongly as we sometimes do/did.

    It's the strangest damn thing in the world I tell you. There's certainly a strong love between us, and a few times in the past when we were in the middle of WWIII I just shut my mouth and grabbed her and hugged her until she stopped being confused and angry with me, that's all I could do, I couldn't talk my way out of it! Things would be nuts for days on end and we'd be driving each other mad, and then one night we make time to sit next to each other on the couch and watch some mindless TV and "SMOOSH" heads on shoulders and all is well again, just like that.

    We are both learning to better afford each other the time and understanding needed to keep peace and harmony in bountiful supply, it isn't done overnight. The biggest step in being able to do so is letting go of past hurts that resulted of us having a complete lack of communication for so long, which was completely unintentional by both of us. CRAZY!!!

    One thing is for sure, as far as I am concerned, I think EVERYONE should take a good MBTI test and explore the results in literature and communities like this one. I can't tell you how much easier my life would have been in many regards if when I was younger, I were better aware of my own innate dispositions, and the potential for interacting with the other 3 categories/15 personality types of humankind. School push us to figure out if we are right brained or left brained, that's about it as far as self discovery!

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    As a result, you have a better understanding of how the other side works and you can better relate to everyone you come across in your daily life.
    Yes, despite my ESTP-ness, I am learning how to better interpret INFJ-ness; and vice versa for her. You bring up a good point in that such experience at home is improving our relations with others, that is interesting and I have never really considered that, thanks for bringing that up!

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Now I have a much better idea why you seem like such a happy, balanced, and mature person.
    That's a damn nice thing to say. Thank you VERY much for that, serioulsy. You seem like an extremely intelligent and well rounded person yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post
    Thanks for sharing that Alex.
    Hey, thanks for sharing your comments too. Have a great weekend!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    We were both 20 and in college, she was in 3 of my classes my first semester at a new school, I sat next to her in every class, and we got to know each other. Love at first sight for me honestly, I had to patiently win her over. Interestingly enough, outside of mutual physical attraction, what we shared in common then (and still now) is all non-MBTI stuff. For instance, both of us are fitness fanatics, eat nutritious foods, like nature, were biology majors, were down to Earth and not pretentious people, liked to travel, etc. At 20, that is really a big chunk of what I knew of myself if I think about it; I had no idea that I was "ESTP" or that she was "INFJ." But people who have known me my whole life have said "You haven't changed a damn bit since you were three years old."
    I'm slowly coming to discover that, regardless of personality types, what really bounds people to each other the deepest is that they share the same basic values and interests. That's a clear example! All the rest can be sorted out with patience and love.

    It's the strangest damn thing in the world I tell you. There's certainly a strong love between us, and a few times in the past when we were in the middle of WWIII I just shut my mouth and grabbed her and hugged her until she stopped being confused and angry with me, that's all I could do, I couldn't talk my way out of it! Things would be nuts for days on end and we'd be driving each other mad, and then one night we make time to sit next to each other on the couch and watch some mindless TV and "SMOOSH" heads on shoulders and all is well again, just like that.
    That's beautiful. I'd imagine myself handling a similar situation in a very similar way. After all, that's all you can do at that point, right? When everything starts to blow up in your face and you can no longer control it, just grab hold of what you cherish the most till the dust settles, and as long as you still have that, everything will be OK in the end

    We are both learning to better afford each other the time and understanding needed to keep peace and harmony in bountiful supply, it isn't done overnight. The biggest step in being able to do so is letting go of past hurts that resulted of us having a complete lack of communication for so long, which was completely unintentional by both of us. CRAZY!!!
    All you need is a strong sense of humility and the realization that we just didn't know any better before, and the inclination to change and improve.

    Don't we always wish we knew yesterday what we knew today? But by today, yesterday no longer matters, so cherish what you love in this moment because you never know when your moment may cease to exist.

    Regret is one of the deepest kinds of pain and stays with you forever. Then again, in a sense, it's the best kind because it serves as a reminder of the valuable things you've had to learn the hard way.

    One thing is for sure, as far as I am concerned, I think EVERYONE should take a good MBTI test and explore the results in literature and communities like this one. I can't tell you how much easier my life would have been in many regards if when I was younger, I were better aware of my own innate dispositions, and the potential for interacting with the other 3 categories/15 personality types of humankind. School push us to figure out if we are right brained or left brained, that's about it as far as self discovery!
    I couldn't agree with you more. I've come to learn that it's an invaluable tool for understanding yourself and then other people.

    Yes, despite my ESTP-ness, I am learning how to better interpret INFJ-ness; and vice versa for her. You bring up a good point in that such experience at home is improving our relations with others, that is interesting and I have never really considered that, thanks for bringing that up!
    It might have been complete BS - but let me know how it works out for you

    That's a damn nice thing to say. Thank you VERY much for that, serioulsy. You seem like an extremely intelligent and well rounded person yourself.
    I am certainly trying. Thank you


    Hey, thanks for sharing your comments too. Have a great weekend!
    I will sure as hell enjoy mine. More gorgeous early spring weather! Enjoy yours as well!

  10. #20
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenity View Post

    It might have been complete BS - but let me know how it works out for you
    Haaaa!!! If it is complete BS, then it will surely jive with my inner core, and it will work out splendidly! You're worse of a bullshitter than me, heaven help you! Funny as hell you are!

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