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  1. #11
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    usually just stuff happens for no good reason and that's that, loose ends areeverywhere
    But that belief could itself be part of your own script! No-one said the script has to be coherent or meaningful.
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Early conditioning and bad relationships may limit perspective and life skills and lead to bad patterns just as easily as false beliefs. And it may not be apparent to the person living the life at the moment.
    That's interesting. I've always lumped early conditioning and false beliefs together.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Model is a tricky word. How about...

    ...script.

    LOL
    I like model better.

  3. #13
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    This is the kind of script Berne and Apollanaut are talking about. "The subtext to what you said is 'I don't really have control over my successes or failures.'"
    Haha I thought you'd say something like that.

    See?
    Yes much clearer now, thanks.

    Actually those kind of false belief are very apparent in my wife, she hangs onto these concepts that to her are "absolute truths" but have no basis in reality and are actually holding her back.

  4. #14
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    Interesting... Here's my two cents....

    I can see where it brings to light the difference between the conscious mind and the unconscious. Itís as if the script of our lives is driven by our instinctual set of values that are hard wired. We observe constantly and process data in our environment. As we process this, we remember facts about a situation. I think how we felt about the situation might be hardwired into the unconscious as well.

    So maybe, as we go through life, what is known through experience is familiar. Familiar is not good versus bad. Maybe instinctually we know that doing the familiar will give better chances of survival. We arenít processing good or bad. The unknown isnít quite so safe, since we donít know the outcome. We are just placing ourselves into situations and on a life path of least resistance.

    By introspecting and paying attention to our behaviors, we are able to process it and change whatís hardwired in our habits. We change the way we think by seeing patterns in how we think. Itís kind of like breathing in and out. Your body does itís own thing until you suddenly take notice and then you can control it. Otherwise, your body just does its own thing on instinct.

  5. #15
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuffledINTP View Post
    Interesting... Here's my two cents....

    I can see where it brings to light the difference between the conscious mind and the unconscious. Itís as if the script of our lives is driven by our instinctual set of values that are hard wired. We observe constantly and process data in our environment. As we process this, we remember facts about a situation. I think how we felt about the situation might be hardwired into the unconscious as well.

    So maybe, as we go through life, what is known through experience is familiar. Familiar is not good versus bad. Maybe instinctually we know that doing the familiar will give better chances of survival. We arenít processing good or bad. The unknown isnít quite so safe, since we donít know the outcome. We are just placing ourselves into situations and on a life path of least resistance.

    By introspecting and paying attention to our behaviors, we are able to process it and change whatís hardwired in our habits. We change the way we think by seeing patterns in how we think. Itís kind of like breathing in and out. Your body does itís own thing until you suddenly take notice and then you can control it. Otherwise, your body just does its own thing on instinct.
    Nicely put! It can feel quite strange or awkward when we first try on new behaviours, like trying to ride a bicycle for the first time. However, with practice and repetition, our new approach can becomes more and more habitual until it passes into our personal unconscious and becomes second nature, either supplementing or completely overwriting the old pattern.

    This happens all the time - whenever we change a habit or learn a new skill, for example. However, by becoming more conscious of the hidden "scripts" which direct our lives, we can take a more proactive approach to self-improvement, by focussing on the beliefs we hold which may be severely limiting our choices. Also it is far, far easier to modify our behaviour by rewriting the script than by using willpower alone!
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    That's interesting. I've always lumped early conditioning and false beliefs together.
    By a false belief I mean holding a thought in the mind: "I am destined for bad things to happen to me"

    By early conditioning I mean how our role models teach us to live and interact with others. And by using bad coping mechanisms we cope badly with life and other people.

  7. #17
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    "I'm always lucky with the weather."
    "Things have a way of working out for me."
    "I find it hard to get respect."
    "I'm always nice to people"
    "I wish I didn't procrastinate so much"
    "I need lots of sleep"

    These don't really apply to a here and now attitude.
    Not sure what you mean, but it might help if I give some examples:

    "I'm always lucky with the weather."
    "Things have a way of working out for me."

    These imply that I believe in "luck" as a power which positively influences my life. Also that I benefit from good luck. By holding this belief I tend to approach life with an expectant attitude - if things are not going well, I "know" that I merely have to wait for a while and they will sort themselves out. It also provides me with my own personal pair of rose-tinted spectacles - I habitually filter out the dark clouds in my life and focus on the silver lining.

    With regards to my belief about the weather - it seems to be self-fulfilling. I expect to have good weather when I am on holiday, so that is what I focus on and notice. It can be raining cats and dogs, but I will be commenting that the teeny-tiny sliver of blue in the sky is a sure sign that the sun will soon come out! However, I DO tend to have good weather when I go away, and other people have commented on this without my prompting. Two years ago I returned to the UK for a 3 week holiday during their summer. Well guess which 3 weeks had the only decent sunshine during an otherwise wet and dismal typical English "summer".

    The downside to holding this belief (which I have no intention of changing as it makes me happy) is that I sometimes fail to take action when it is needed, believing that things will sort themselves out without my direct intervention. This part I have altered somewhat - I'm much more proactive than I used to be.

    "I find it hard to get respect."
    "I'm always nice to people"

    These two go together. I was brought up to believe in being polite, kind and helpful to other people. However, in the modern world it seems that these traits are not valued at all, in contrast they are actually telling (some) people that they can walk all over me, respond to my politeness with extreme rudeness, or simply ignore me completely. "Respect" seems to be earned by being loud, sarcastic or assertive-to-the-point-of-bullying in our society, and I refuse to treat others in that way.

    You see how powerful and emotional these scripts can be? Just writing about it has got me all fired up! Partly to compensate for this belief, I have acquired many academic and professional qualifications and I hold down a highly respected job as a senior forensic scientist. I have been cross-examined in courts of law on many occasions and held my own. Yet still, there is a part of me that feels like people do not truly respect me, or who mistake my easygoing facade for weakness. I admit to having a lot of editing still to do in this area of my personal script!
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  8. #18
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    "I'm always lucky with the weather."
    "Things have a way of working out for me."
    I actually agree with the OP, but I think this is an example of selective bias. Weather is a random factor that you have no control over - if you think you are lucky with it, chances are you are filtering out the external world to confirm that belief, not that it is inherently true.

    That's the power of the 'scripts', in a way, and it works both ways. In cases where we have control and can predict the outcome, we end up influencing it in a myriad of ways beyond our ability to be aware of them ourselves. Most of what we do - if not the entirety of what we do - is below awareness. We can find patterns in our own life, but most of the time others are able to see it better than we are. But this ties into the filter concept - selectively seeing the world a certain way. By always seeing the world a certain way, we prune down how we can react to a far smaller subset of behaviors... which we choose based on the 'script'. It's an efficient defense mechanism that everyone has.

    I personally see it as a form of conditioning, but it is essentially the same thing.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I actually agree with the OP, but I think this is an example of selective bias. Weather is a random factor that you have no control over - if you think you are lucky with it, chances are you are filtering out the external world to confirm that belief, not that it is inherently true.
    I thought that's what I said in my last post. But my belief does influence my behavour subtly - I suspect I'm more likely to choose to visit holiday destinations at the optimal times for good weather. I'm pretty good at reading the sky and guessing what the weather's likely to do in the next few hours, so I'll time my journeys for when i think it's most likely to be dry. Or I may pick up on the weather forecast subconsciously - there are many ways in which my unconscious behaviour can act to reinforce the script. I know it's an irrational belief, but as I said before, it makes me happier to think that there is such a thing as "luck", or "weather-attunement" or at a deeper level "magic".

    I chose a relatively minor, harmless example from my own life to illustrate a point, but even this superstition could become detrimental if taken too far (overwhelming belief in supernatural forces?).

    I know plenty of people who hold the reverse beliefs: "I always have bad weather", or "My luck is always terrible" and these ones do seem to have quite a negative effect on people's lives and happiness.
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  10. #20
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    I thought that's what I said in my last post.
    Ah, sorry, didn't mean to give the impression I was disagreeing with you, I saw what you said as an expansion on the OP, which might not include your reasoning It just prompted me to think about the interactive effect between them (meaning - because you believe you have good luck with the weather, you tend to go out and do more).

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