Emotionally dead = dead ?

[mortabunt]

 

[rainoneventide]

You're marking your calendar in order to expect family members' deaths instead of being taken by surprise. You're purposefully guarding yourself against emotion. It sounds emotionless because you're trying to be emotionless. You weren't born emotionless; you believe you are. People have beliefs of who they are as well--what life they want to live, what meaning or purpose has placed them here, and they inevitably compare their beliefs to others'. And they inevitably find that they are different.

You are very different from everyone else in this world. We all are. But that's also what we have in common.

Striving to be more emotional, to be more logical, to be more caring--it's only to relate better to others, to be less different.

The "mainstream" is that futile attempt.

And now I am finished trying to sound wise.

 

[wildcat]

A good observation.
Interest is an emotion. Also an intellectual interest is an emotion.
Disinterest is death.

 

[Virtual ghost]

You're marking your calendar in order to expect family members' deaths instead of being taken by surprise. You're purposefully guarding yourself against emotion. It sounds emotionless because you're trying to be emotionless. You weren't born emotionless; you believe you are. People have beliefs of who they are as well--what life they want to live, what meaning or purpose has placed them here, and they inevitably compare their beliefs to others'. And they inevitably find that they are different.

You are very different from everyone else in this world. We all are. But that's also what we have in common.

Striving to be more emotional, to be more logical, to be more caring--it's only to relate better to others, to be less different.

The "mainstream" is that futile attempt.


And now I am finished trying to sound wise.

Would you care to explain this claim.
(if someone else wants to try i will listen)


I am not saying that I don't have any emotions at all. . I am simply presenting my case on this way because I am not too emotional person next to other people.


Btw. I have admited the calendar thing to my family.

 

[rainoneventide]

Oh, no, I wasn't saying that you have no emotions. Not at all. It just seems like you're trying to block them out. I explained that claim with the example of the calendar marking.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Oh, no, I wasn't saying that you have no emotions. Not at all. It just seems like you're trying to block them out. I explained that claim with the example of the calendar marking.

I said that simply to let you know that I don't think that I don't have any emotion at all.


I have asked you exactly because you are an FP and FPs often think that I am running from myself.


While I think that you are just missreading my TJness. Because you (FPs) take that approach when you are stressed or something like that.

 

[Zoom]

Originally ye said that you wished this thread to be a place to acknowledge or discuss that (as you might put it) an extremely strong T and low F (or perhaps low expression of feelings?) can be simply another way of being.

I'll agree, to a certain extent.

When I am able to be alone a lot of the time, and simply work, study, do what I wish with some of my time, etc... I can spend 24/7 in my head, thinking, reading, enjoying silence. This sounds a bit different from what you are speaking of, but I used to actually prefer being in my own head more than anywhere else, didn't have emotional ups and downs - it was more of a steady calm and contented bubble of thought that floated through life.

Ideas and thoughts gave me energy, amused and kept me busy.

My life does not allow that now, and I discovered other ways of being that are interesting as well. But the main reason I actually started making efforts to be with people was because I didn't want to be static in who I was, and knew there were things I wanted to experience.

So as long as ye are sure that this is simply a part of who you are, and that it's not a lack of something or repression of a part of ye, I'd say that you're on a good track.

I'd request that you keep others in mind if you ever decide to date, though. You'd mentioned trying it out for reasons that had nothing to do with wanting to be with someone... and you could easily end up hurting people if you treat socialising as a science experiment.

 

[rainoneventide]

I said that simply to let you know that I don't think that I don't have any emotion at all.


I have asked you exactly because you are an FP and FPs often think that I am running from myself.


While I think that you are just missreading my TJness. Because you (FPs) take that approach when you are stressed or something like that.

Ahh okay, I think I get it now. What you're saying is that you have less emotions when comparing yourself to more dominant feelers, yet the feelers insist that you in fact do have more emotions, you're just trying to avoid them. (Got to type this all out to clear my brain.)

You're right, I am misunderstanding you; I didn't realize this until now! Because I'm a feeler, I can't understand how it's possible to live with little emotion--I unconsciously think of it as cold and uncaring. I guess it's hard for me to relate to people who aren't like me, so I try to relate to them on my own terms instead of taking a more objective view.

At the same time, you believe that emotions cloud our judgment, and if people didn't let emotions control them as much, we would make clearer, better decisions. However, I believe that emotions are a natural part of life because I experience them every day. I'm not willing to experience a life with less emotions in exchange for more objective reasoning; emotions are more important to me, and decisions that I see as cold yet practical aren't as worthy as decisions formed by a turmoil of genuine feelings.

I don't know if I've contributed anything different to this discussion, but thank you, you've made me realize that I need to try and be more objective in order to understand people, and this world, better.

Even if people don't understand you, it's definitely important to stay true to who you are.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Originally ye said that you wished this thread to be a place to acknowledge or discuss that (as you might put it) an extremely strong T and low F (or perhaps low expression of feelings?) can be simply another way of being.

I'll agree, to a certain extent.

When I am able to be alone a lot of the time, and simply work, study, do what I wish with some of my time, etc... I can spend 24/7 in my head, thinking, reading, enjoying silence. This sounds a bit different from what you are speaking of, but I used to actually prefer being in my own head more than anywhere else, didn't have emotional ups and downs - it was more of a steady calm and contented bubble of thought that floated through life.

Ideas and thoughts gave me energy, amused and kept me busy.

My life does not allow that now, and I discovered other ways of being that are interesting as well. But the main reason I actually started making efforts to be with people was because I didn't want to be static in who I was, and knew there were things I wanted to experience.

So as long as ye are sure that this is simply a part of who you are, and that it's not a lack of something or repression of a part of ye, I'd say that you're on a good track.


I'd request that you keep others in mind if you ever decide to date, though. You'd mentioned trying it out for reasons that had nothing to do with wanting to be with someone... and you could easily end up hurting people if you treat socialising as a science experiment.

I am aware of that.


However am not that much static since I am strong J. But I understand your point since I am socially static.

 

[Laurie]

I lived in an SJ world so long I understand not fitting into what you are "supposed" to be. I can't imagine telling someone that they are broken because of how they are naturally built.

Do you want to learn to be more "feely" or you are just trying to figure out whats up with you seeming emotionally dead to people?

 

[Zoom]

I was fairly sure you had thought of it, but it was something that needed to be said just in case ye hadn't.

You seem to be looking for specific responses, and have responded primarily to the things that are specifically about you. I believe you have spoken on how you are here to learn about others, it just seems like a slight lack of engagement of others in terms of discussion. You have spent much of the time explaining and defending yourself - if you are interested in others and expanding who you are, what of asking questions?

Or is it more of a passive observation on your part?

 

[Virtual ghost]

I lived in an SJ world so long I understand not fitting into what you are "supposed" to be. I can't imagine telling someone that they are broken because of how they are naturally built.

Do you want to learn to be more "feely" or you are just trying to figure out whats up with you seeming emotionally dead to people?

Well I will never be warm and considerate person. This is simply not who I am.

But I am interested in way of how I can come as more considearate person.
I have realized that I function best socially if people don't expect me to be "subjective" .

I was fairly sure you had thought of it, but it was something that needed to be said just in case ye hadn't.

You seem to be looking for specific responses, and have responded primarily to the things that are specifically about you. I believe you have spoken on how you are here to learn about others, it just seems like a slight lack of engagement of others in terms of discussion. You have spent much of the time explaining and defending yourself - if you are interested in others and expanding who you are, what of asking questions?

Or is it more of a passive observation on your part?

I am simply trying to find a way to better adapt socially. Simply because I think I could use the skill. Since I am too isolated. I have very well developed NTJ part which simply does not allow me to stay this way.

Well. this thread is designed to be data bank/explanation. I am using other threads for more offensive approach.

 

[Athenian200]

In real life it is not unusual that people see me as a person that has no soul.
What is not that far from the truth since I am quite uninterested in pretty much everithing the average person is and what it is close to their hearts.
You name it : food , sports , cars , women , alcohol , drugs , money patriotism, ...... even things like arts and movies are in this category for me.


It is not even that much unusual that the other person asks " Do you even feel anything?". Since from the position of the other person I can appear like I am totally empty and in a way I am.
For example I know that some familiy members will die in not too far future.
So I have analysed their condition and marked my calendar. I don't want anyone dead, it is just that I don't see the alternative and I would not like to be caught by suprise by this. I am well aware that this can sound quite heartless to someone but this is the way I operate.

None of this makes you heartless.The things you listed are the simple, material things people invest their feelings in order to feel they're lives are meaningful. Those of us who actually have a vision for life need not concern ourselves with such silly things.

And marking your calendar... well, of course. You want to avoid being overwhelmed by it, so you're planning ahead. Trying to accept the fact that they're going to die before it happens. If anything, that means you actually do care a little... if you didn't, you would simply be so indifferent to it that you wouldn't even bother to mark it. It's not that weird, you just shouldn't go around telling people about what you think and do. If you kept the thoughts and actions you know people wouldn't understand to yourself, they'd probably be fine with you.

Same worths when it comes to people problems. I don't feel for people.
I am sorry but I don't do that even if it is somthing quite bad. Like dead baby or plenty of dead in natural disaster. However I offer a possible solution(s) almost always.

Well, it's hard to feel deeply for people you don't know. If you just hear about them, it just sounds like a statistic... not real to you. And you offer the solution because you would prefer that it hadn't happened. Which means you care. If you didn't care, you might find their deaths amusing, and not see a problem with their deaths that needed to be prevented.

Also... you're talking about babies and people in natural disasters that you don't know, right? Do you think you might have a stronger reaction if the people who had died had been ones that you knew, or can you not tell until you're actually in the situation? Well, post again if someone you know dies in a natural disaster, and tell us if it affected you more strongly than it would have otherwise. I'm curious.

Also I don't know what romantic love actually is. Since I have never sense it.
Another thing is that I don't have spiritual feeling and I have never prayed in my entire life (not even once) Etc.
Some people say to me that they would rather die then live life like I live mine. Since there is no warmth in it at all.

Well, that doesn't mean anything. Love and spirituality aren't for everyone. I haven't loved either, but I'm still hoping to experience it one day. As for spirituality... I don't really "get" it myself, so I can't tell you why people value it.

But there is twist in all of this which people tend to overlook.
It is not their fault it is just that they don't experiance/have this/my approach.

Of course. People often don't try very hard to understand those with a different approach from themselves. In fact, many of them are disgusted by and afraid of those with a different approach from themselves. Ironically, you may actually be more empathetic than they are, in the sense that you try to understand their approach, while they make no attempt to understand yours.

The thing is that I am not too emotional person but my mind is hyperactive all the time. It never shuts down or it is really relaxed.
I am always thinking, analysing or planning something. For me it is normal that I spend 4-8 hours inside my 4 walls each day just thinking about things.It is not even related to collage, I just think about things.
Studing and classes are extra time on that.

That's mostly Introversion. Pretty normal for Introverted Intuitives, especially. You're really not that different.

I don't do this for any perticular reason it is just the way I am built.
I when look at other people I must admit that feelings can turn people day/life into hell. It looks that people don't even understand this, since they are built this way. From what I have seen I have certain advantages over other people.
The most obvious one are things related to neuroticism.
For example I don't have problems with stress because of my rationality. For example: I have never broke anything in my life because I was pissed off at someone or something. It is not unusual that people try to comfort me and they end up disturbed since I am handling situation a way too well.
What is one more manifestation of low neuroticism.


People usually say that they can't comprehend that someone can do things that are hard and don't make the person happy. Since they would get bored and annoyed quite fast.
The answer is quite simple actually: Because they don't make me unhappy.
Some people chew this explanation easier and some harder.


This is because retionality reduces both aspects a good one and a bad one.
But this is not just because T (deficit of F) the other thing is that my introversion and intuition mixed with rationality are creating personal world in my head. That is very well developed in my case.
I can do boring things since I am not there. My body is but my mind is not.
Personally I think this is one of my greatest strengths since it is quite hard to get me bored. This is like having a book always with you. Since I will aways think about something or analyse or plan.

Hmm... I can't really relate to that. I get stressed or frustrated easily. I also have high neuroticism. So at first I would wonder why you weren't reacting strongly, but I'd pretty quickly realize you weren't built that way and had low neuroticism, so I'd attribute it to a difference that simply has advantages and disadvantages rather than you having a "problem."

The main reason why I have this kind of a mind and I am able to maintain it lies in a fact that I don't think that life has a purpose. Actually I think that the very idea of purpose is man made and it does not exists in reality.
I think that I have saved myself from a lot of problems in life with this because this line of thought created the atmosphere where I don't have worry about thing. What in the end means that I have lost one of the strongest emotion factories in life this way. What opend a space for even more analysing. What in the end created a personality it created over the years.

Another reason why this works is because I see the outcomes and possibilities clearly in many cases. But I am quite rational and J so I focus on outcomes or things that lead to them. As person I am almost never in present. I am always focused on future and I use past as a potential databank. My brain simpley does not alow me to take a brake from this. This will manifests itself in one way or the other way but it will be always there.



This is where thing start to becaome very interesting since with this connection with mainstream behaviour is sevearly damaged. Since it alows me a degree of freedom I would never be able to have otherwise.
Which is becuase I am not afraid to look in a direction where things are not pretty and I am able to avoid depression because of this.
I can analyse whatever I want and it will not have any strong efects on me since thinking on a level good - bad is greatly reduced.
For example my thinking about history of Earth and universe led me to conclusion that Mankind can't survive in this reality. But I am not bothered by this at all since I fail to see why that would be something bad.
Actually one of my biggest problems is that I usually can't share my thoughts with others without making them depressed.

Most of this is very Ni. I agree that purpose doesn't exist in reality, but I see that as liberating... it means that people are free to define their own purpose rather than be slaves to a purpose they didn't choose. The difference between you and I, is that I know how to cast it in a positive light.

This is one of the main reason why I am not too strong on Fi. I simply don't see the point of having many values. In a way this is no different from sitation when P attack J that he/she plans before they know all the facts.

But because of my way of life and good intuiton I can afford stronger planning. However bacause of strong rationalty I dont plan always since I know that this is not a wise choice always.
What is one more sign of F deficit since I can't do things just like that. I have to explain almost everything to myself and give myself reasons why would I do this or that .


Since I have this amount of rationality I have managed to develope good planning skills and I live by them. Since I am alone most of the time I can plan by a quite extensive degree since number of variables is not big and number of values that needs to be preserved is not too big either.

Oh, I can see how that would be a strength. It allows you to focus more completely on achieving what you want without being held back by emotions or the present situation.

I think most people need explanations and reasons for things, the difference in your case, is that you're just more analytical, and thus able to see the flaws in the explanations that most accept. Many are not this critical of things.

but I think it is actually not since emotional deficit opens a gate to entirely new/different way of living. Since many problems in a way are not problems anymore and intellectual freedom you get will make sure you have always something to do.
This post perhaps is not ideal expanation since it does not shows how much energy is actully needed for this.


I am quite alive as a person but I am alive in a different way then most people.

I agree. You're just who you are, living in your own way. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you're being who you want to be.

I get the impression that you're dissatisfied with the way you are in some respects, though. Are you?

 

[Virtual ghost]

I am qute happy with who I am it is just that I have to find ways to adapt better. What is not the same thing as being dissatisfied with yourself.

The difference is in neuroticism.


As for close people getting hurt the fact is that this does not effect me on emotional level. For example when my old neghbour which cared form me when i was little ended up in a hospital I have barely registered the entire event.

Once one guy I was close to (by my standards) died in a scary car accident.
But I can't say I ever felt really bad about it.


The "problem" is that I am not bothered by things I can't change.
Like in the cases mentioned above.
What in the end shows itself as low neuriticism.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Ahh okay, I think I get it now. What you're saying is that you have less emotions when comparing yourself to more dominant feelers, yet the feelers insist that you in fact do have more emotions, you're just trying to avoid them. (Got to type this all out to clear my brain.)

You're right, I am misunderstanding you; I didn't realize this until now! Because I'm a feeler, I can't understand how it's possible to live with little emotion--I unconsciously think of it as cold and uncaring. I guess it's hard for me to relate to people who aren't like me, so I try to relate to them on my own terms instead of taking a more objective view.

At the same time, you believe that emotions cloud our judgment, and if people didn't let emotions control them as much, we would make clearer, better decisions. However, I believe that emotions are a natural part of life because I experience them every day. I'm not willing to experience a life with less emotions in exchange for more objective reasoning; emotions are more important to me, and decisions that I see as cold yet practical aren't as worthy as decisions formed by a turmoil of genuine feelings.

I don't know if I've contributed anything different to this discussion, but thank you, you've made me realize that I need to try and be more objective in order to understand people, and this world, better.

Even if people don't understand you, it's definitely important to stay true to who you are.

I am looking at this post and I see something very familiar.
One of the largest social problems I am experiancing is that I am "dangerous" for opinions of others about themselves or the world.

So when I talk to people I have to hide quite large part of who I am. Simply because I have to adapt to situation and I am fine with that.
I simply have a natural tendency to make people uncomfortable. (unless you know me for some time)

 

[durentu]

long post

What you seek is validation. Surround yourself with loving people. And by love I mean - to understand, validate and accept another person's reality.

Being in solitude is tricky business. Much like tools, they can be used for good or for bad.

The bad side of solitude is that it separated from reality. Thoughts become disjoint and floating. It's damaging because the thoughts and models that are constructed aren't tested against reality and thus start the spiraling course into devastation. The first model unchecked by reality provides a fantasy which is alluring. As this fantasy becomes more developed it becomes more formidable. Very advantageous for a writer, musician or artist, but not for everyone. As these formidable models are made and progressively left unchecked, there will inevitably be something in reality that calls the person out of solitude. At the first moment the model is tested with reality, the fantasy reality crumbles.

The good side of solitude is that for meditation. This requires a strict framework for meditation and discipline to keep things in focus and vigilantly guard against weak thoughts. For the natural state of the psyche is chaos. The mind tends to focus on the most negative and the most immediate. (Csikszentmihalyi, Campbell)

To the specific question of emotionless people, these are serial killers. In one of the TED videos, the speker interviewed the serial killer of Santa Barbara, and asked "how can you do it? how can you kill all those people?" To which he said that he had to turn off his EQ, his emotional center to commit all those murders. Rest assured, he had high IQ.

Must like the fictional character of Sylar in the TV heroes, the absence of emotions doesn't make a person dead. It just makes them less compassionate. And with total loss of this faculty, the human equation is disregarded.

I was much like you but the struggle was in my favor. My goal of my solitude was to open and examine all assumptions. Applying reason, and strengthening my resolve.


Have strength and embrace your individuality. The world needs you more than you are shown in evidence.

 

[BlackCat]

I think I've asked you this before, but what are you going to do about this lack of emotion in your life? Didn't you say you were going to try to work on it or something?

I mean sure explaining your situation and getting different POVs is nice... but how are you going to apply the knowledge you have?

 

[Virtual ghost]

What you seek is validation. Surround yourself with loving people. And by love I mean - to understand, validate and accept another person's reality.

Being in solitude is tricky business. Much like tools, they can be used for good or for bad.

The bad side of solitude is that it separated from reality. Thoughts become disjoint and floating. It's damaging because the thoughts and models that are constructed aren't tested against reality and thus start the spiraling course into devastation. The first model unchecked by reality provides a fantasy which is alluring. As this fantasy becomes more developed it becomes more formidable. Very advantageous for a writer, musician or artist, but not for everyone. As these formidable models are made and progressively left unchecked, there will inevitably be something in reality that calls the person out of solitude. At the first moment the model is tested with reality, the fantasy reality crumbles.

The good side of solitude is that for meditation. This requires a strict framework for meditation and discipline to keep things in focus and vigilantly guard against weak thoughts. For the natural state of the psyche is chaos. The mind tends to focus on the most negative and the most immediate. (Csikszentmihalyi, Campbell)

To the specific question of emotionless people, these are serial killers. In one of the TED videos, the speker interviewed the serial killer of Santa Barbara, and asked "how can you do it? how can you kill all those people?" To which he said that he had to turn off his EQ, his emotional center to commit all those murders. Rest assured, he had high IQ.

Must like the fictional character of Sylar in the TV heroes, the absence of emotions doesn't make a person dead. It just makes them less compassionate. And with total loss of this faculty, the human equation is disregarded.

I was much like you but the struggle was in my favor. My goal of my solitude was to open and examine all assumptions. Applying reason, and strengthening my resolve.


Have strength and embrace your individuality. The world needs you more than you are shown in evidence.

No ofence but your post sounds as quite stereotypical thing to say.


I am not really looking for validations just practical advices.

The thing is that my selfconfidance is quite high plus I am tabile emotionally and socially which is the core of the "problem". Since everything is stabile but I am very unsocial person. So nothing pushes me to be more open towards people. The reason why I have decided to become more social is because I can live like this for the rest of my life technically.
But that is somehow lame. Especially since I am not trying to prove anything with this way of life.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think I've asked you this before, but what are you going to do about this lack of emotion in your life? Didn't you say you were going to try to work on it or something?

I mean sure explaining your situation and getting different POVs is nice... but how are you going to apply the knowledge you have?

Well, I already did.

I talk to more with people in real life just for the sake of it.
I have gathered some phone numbers.
I don't kill conversation just because I think that topic is lame.
Or I get a drink with someone form time to time.
And stuff like that.


At this stage of the process changes are nothing special but I simply don't want to make radical moves.

I mean, before I did even hangout with people online so all of this will take some time.


My biggest advantage is that my NTJ part never allow me to become a real/total isolationist. So I had a minimal connection with some people.
Now I only have to strenghten the bonds.

 

[alcea rosea]

Well, I already did.

I talk to more with people in real life just for the sake of it.
I have gathered some phone numbers.
I don't kill conversation just because I think that topic is lame.
Or get a drink with someone form time to time.
And stuff like that.


At this stage of the process changes are nothing special but I simply don't want to make radical moves.

I mean, before I did even hangout with people online so all of this will take some time.


My biggest advantage is that my NTJ part never allow me to become a real/total isolationist. So I had a minimal connection with some people.
Now I only have to strenghten the bonds.

Good job Antisocial (and I really mean it )!
You are getting there!