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  1. #61
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    You're not really making a lot of sense. I know there is the language barrier, but still.

    You haven't talked about emotions at all.

    Are you saying that a very emotional person would have trouble accepting the conclusions you have drawn on a 'scientific' basis? So what? Since all you are presenting are doomsday scenarios, I don't see how your attitude is advantageous....
    But perhaps I misunderstand.

    You are right my opinions about things are not advantageous at all. But I will not throw them in garbage just because they are not advantageous.

    I think you did not misunderstand.

    To tell you the truth "my" conclusions are not 100% mine conclusions. I made them based on what I have learned at college. I am not one of the guys that that want to believe in something just like becaue I feel like it.
    I think that my positions don't have too much to do with believing.


    For emample my hydrogeology profesor says that organizing succesful global water supply in the future is quite unlikely thing to happen.


    The reason why I blame emotions to some degree is that people don't pay too much attention to things. This world is full of people who think "everything will be just fine". I think that this will turn out to be a fatal mistake.

    Does this make more/some sense to you ?

  2. #62
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    But I will not throw them in garbage just because they are not advantageous.
    You just haven't made a very good case for your position, 'tis all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    The reason why I blame emotions to some degree is that people don't pay too much attention to things. This world is full of people who think "everything will be just fine". I think that this will turn out to be a fatal mistake.

    Does this make more/some sense to you ?
    Then the problem is apathy/ignorance, not emotion.

    You need to accurately define the problem before you can define a solution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #63
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    You just haven't made a very good case for your position, 'tis all.


    Then the problem is apathy/ignorance, not emotion.

    You need to accurately define the problem before you can define a solution.
    You are right I haven't made too good case.
    The problem with my position is that you can't explain it just like that.
    I spend years on college and my personal thinking. It is impossible to connect all the dots just when you feel like it.
    To be complety honest I don't think there is a soluotion for current global problems.
    If you wish I can post you explanation of this claim which is long.


    You are right problems are apathy and ignorance but from what I see in life both have their roots in certain emotions.

  4. #64
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    You are right problems are apathy and ignorance but from what I see in life both have their roots in certain emotions.
    Explain, please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #65
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    You are right problems are apathy and ignorance but from what I see in life both have their roots in certain emotions.
    Apathy can be brought on by certain emotions, but ignorance has roots in "lacking knowledge or intelligence".

  6. #66
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Explain, please.
    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Apathy can be brought on by certain emotions, but ignorance has roots in "lacking knowledge or intelligence".
    That is true, if you look everything from perspective of pure theory but if you add real world data then it is not that simple.



    Here is how I see it.

    In my opinion it should have never happen that world population reaches todays 6.8 billion. Since we are changing environment chemically and physically and we pushed biosphere on the edge of sixth mass extinction (or fifthy if you don't count extinction in Trias period as that big).
    Which is because there is too many of us.


    Why that happend ?

    It happened becuse people did not pay attention to this when it was time since they were buissy with other things.
    One good example is the entire cold war story.
    Cold war is probably the best example of how technological progress and human instincts and emotions don't go togather. The entire thing was litterally on a kindergrden level and it lasted for decades since instincts and emotions form tribal culture took over.

    When tech level passes the certain point there is no more room for things like compulsive behaviour, patroitism(what is clearly emotion) or seeking pleasure at all costs.

    This is one example but there are more of them in history.


    I think that we have a deficit of critical think on a global scale and one of the main reasons for that is because people are designed to follow.
    Plus,the entire idea that you can have too much children is somewhat counterintuitive. Unless someone manage to convinve you othewise.


    You and I are somewhat special cases here since we are INTs but most people are/were really quite focused on other people and they have certain emotions and instincts toward them. They are focused on people and they are interested in making the collective stronger in every way. (number and quality) but they don't ask if the planets "infrastructure" can actually handle it since that was never an issue.

  7. #67
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Yeah - you're talking about values/ethics/instincts again, not emotions. Granted there are links.

    I find your argument contradictory.

    You are actually arguing against self-interest and for the 'greater good'.
    But how does anyone have a notion of/ interest in the greater good without some kind of emotional bond with/empathy for the rest of humankind/inhabitants of the planet?

    Most organisms act primarily out of self-interest. It's entirely rational. It's the engine of evolution. Self-sacrifice? Not so much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Rangler's Avatar
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    Do people see some emotions as more motivational than others? For example anger, fear, love motivate while sadness, happiness, depression demotivate. The standard for which is the degree to which on average they create external action.
    R[a]ngl[e]r

  9. #69
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Yeah - you're talking about values/ethics/instincts again, not emotions. Granted there are links.

    I find your argument contradictory.

    You are actually arguing against self-interest and for the 'greater good'.
    But how does anyone have a notion of/ interest in the greater good without some kind of emotional bond with/empathy for the rest of humankind/inhabitants of the planet?

    Most organisms act primarily out of self-interest. It's entirely rational. It's the engine of evolution. Self-sacrifice? Not so much.
    I think we have misundersatnding here. I am not arguing the point that all emotion are bad I am arguing that certain emotions had "fingers" in something that could turn out to be bad.

  10. #70
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I think we have misundersatnding here. I am not arguing the point that all emotion are bad I am arguing that certain emotions had "fingers" in something that could turn out to be bad.
    Well
    a) You didn't clarify that and
    b) No shit!

    This is one of the main reason why I am not too strong on Fi. I simply don't see the point of having many values.
    And yet you have them just the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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