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  1. #1
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Default People continuing to smoke Cigarettes

    One thing I've wondered about for a long time is why they continue to allow cigarettes to be sold. The health impact is so well-documented. It's effects are almost as bad as some narcotics. Drugs have been pulled from the market for having effects less detrimental than cigarettes. So why are these things still sold? What is going through the heads of the people making law? Why is there a perception of cigarettes as somehow being more acceptable? What is the psychology behind this?

  2. #2
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    What is the psychology behind this?
    money
    free will

    People use cigarettes for pleasure and coping. People also do many other activities for these same reasons that are destructive. Life is messy and complicated and controlling people is rarely, if ever, the answer.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  3. #3
    only bites when provoked
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    Money
    I 100%, N 88%, T 88%, J 75%

    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  4. #4
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    money
    free will

    People use cigarettes for pleasure and coping. People also do many other activities for these same reasons that are destructive. Life is messy and complicated and controlling people is rarely, if ever, the answer.
    So, what are you saying? That there is nothing wrong with people doing things that could harm themselves? Then why do we have laws about seat belts? Laws about not drinking until 21? And why do you believe that I wish to control people? I'm simply saying that it doesn't fit well with many of our other laws and regulations regarding such matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Money
    A one word answer is a bit confusing and disconcerting, so tell me if I understand correctly. This occurs because the manufacturers of tobacco have been in business for a long time, have influence over politics and politicians, and manage to promote their own agenda via their financial muscle?

  5. #5
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    This occurs because the manufacturers of tobacco have been in business for a long time, have influence over politics and politicians, and manage to promote their own agenda via their financial muscle?
    Looks like you've got it pretty well figured out to me.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  6. #6
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    So, what are you saying? That there is nothing wrong with people doing things that could harm themselves? Then why do we have laws about seat belts? Laws about not drinking until 21? And why do you believe that I wish to control people? I'm simply saying that it doesn't fit well with many of our other laws and regulations regarding such matters.



    A one word answer is a bit confusing and disconcerting, so tell me if I understand correctly. This occurs because the manufacturers of tobacco have been in business for a long time, have influence over politics and politicians, and manage to promote their own agenda via their financial muscle?
    I say if someone wants to smoke and get cancer/ emphysema let them it's their choice. I don't like so called laws that are meant to protect us from ourselves. By that I mean anyone over 18. If your too stupid to figure out how to surive without certain laws then you should probably take yourself out of the gene pool.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rohsiph's Avatar
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    Default

    The problem I see is when the self-destructive folks' self-destructiveness extends such that it is necessary for non-self-destructive people to deliberately avoid the self-destructive folks in order to avoid the risks/dangers/consequences of such self-destructive tendencies.

    Easy example: second-hand smoke. The last time I checked, the studies still don't show a clear leaning towards second-hand smoke being more than mildly damaging, yet there are enough studies to suggest that non-smokers would do well to try avoiding second-hand smoke. Should people who want to protect their health be forced into weighing the risks of the less conscientious people who don't care about their health?

    I'll try to clarify with a specific example I face pretty often: although most all-ages music venues in my area enforce county and city smoking bans, the 21+ private bars/clubs still let patrons smoke. If I want to attend a concert at one of these bars/clubs, I am forced to take some kind of health-hit for exposing myself to heavy second-hand smoke. Since my values striving toward personal health already keep me from a wide range of "fun" risky activities, I can't help but feeling subdued when I have to put up with second-hand smoke to go to certain concerts.

    The free-will/freedom of choice arguments are powerful, as, indeed, I have the choice to stay at home. Yet, . . . it's a matter of enabling. Perhaps if everyone could have the same education about the consequences of self-destructive tendencies (to the extent that everyone is made to understand these consequences, rather than just knowing the cursory statistics as in some cases) I think I would be more inclined to accept that, fine, this person who knowingly fucks up his/her body is making a bad choice, and good riddance when he/she dies before I do. But, I don't think it's the case that everyone understands what they're doing--especially younger folk. :steam:

    Boxing myself in the MBTI system, I chalk it up to the INTJ desire for everything to make sense. Tendencies toward self-destruction really make no fucking sense. I search and search and search for arguments to show me that, in fact, people who choose to hurt themselves are making choices no worse than many of my own, but it always seems to come down to annoying short-sighted relativism that I can never seem to show the other side why such arguments are groundless . . .

    Annoying.

  8. #8
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    To quote a line from Robocop:

    - "Smoke?

    - "No, those things will kill you!"

    - "You wanna live forever?"

    My advice for the kids: Go ahead and smoke. If you don't die of lung cancer, you'll die some other way.

    (That's actually more of an INTJ answer, I think, since it's global, rebellious of the norms, logical, simple, and closure-oriented.)

    In terms of functions, the INTPs and ISTPs are actually the types that try to make sense out of everything either conceptual or physical. They make things more complex, since they use judgment before cognition in their functional orders.

  9. #9
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Survival is overrated. Second-hand smoke tends to keep the tedious people away from me. I don't have to interact with them, and they get to go their way feeling healthier, more educated and generally superior to me. It's a win-win situation.

    As to the OP, where would they stop? If they banned cigarettes because they are eventually dangerous, would they then have to ban salt or packets of chips since they also have an unnecessarily detrimental effect on your health? As far as I know, narcotics were only banned originally as a form of sanction on the countries which exported them, NOT because of their detrimental effects on health. Maybe it was a bad precedent to set.

    I don't see much difference between legislated health and legislated values really.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Second-hand smoke tends to keep the tedious people away from me.
    Heh heh, funny that. I see smoking as a flag for people I probably won't enjoy talking to. So I guess it does work (Is there anyone more tedious than me? Probably not)

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