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  1. #11
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    It's a matter of balance, I guess. Maybe people seeking sympathy here don't get it in their real lives. So what they get here is a little dessert.

  2. #12
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Well, most people give others empathy, not sympathy.
    Both Sytpg and Eck are consistently harassing me.

    I ask you to delete your posts from my thread and stop harassing me.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Both Sytpg and Eck are consistently harassing me.

    I ask you to delete your posts from my thread and stop harassing me.
    You're not really my type Victor, I'm sorry.

    And you're giving the meaning you want to my posts. I don't have to agree with you, do I? I'm not giving you special treatment. Sorry again.

  4. #14
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    It's a matter of balance, I guess. Maybe people seeking sympathy here don't get it in their real lives. So what they get here is a little dessert.
    Sympathy is very common because we all learn sympathy at our mother's knee.

    But just as almost none of us learn to read and write at our mother's knee, none of us learn how to empathise at our mother's knee.

    Empathy doesn't come naturally. Empathy must be learnt and practised.

    I think the problem is twofold - most of us do not know the difference between sympathy and empathy. And most of us don't know that empathy, unlike sympathy, must be learnt.

    And most of us are not prepared to put the time and effort into learning how to empathise.

    This is a shame, for empathy is uniquely helpful.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    It's a distinction I've read before, but, honestly, I can't grasp it. Why is empathy helpful while sympathy is cheap?

  6. #16
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    It's a distinction I've read before, but, honestly, I can't grasp it. Why is empathy helpful while sympathy is cheap?
    Well, let's take an extreme case.

    Imagine you are trying to help someone who is traumatised and distraught.

    If you were to feel the same as her, you wouldn't be able to help her. In fact she needs someone calm with their wits about them in order to help her.

    And this is also true if you are trying to help someone discover their creativity, their voice and style.

    It's no good you feeling the same as them, because they are in all the feelings that lead to their conformity. And if you feel the same, you will only be reinforcing their conformity.

    No, if you want to help someone to move from conformity to creativity, you need to empathise with them.

    You need to walk beside them while they discover their own unique voice and style.

    The words 'sympathy' and 'empathy' come from the Ancient Greek. The Ancient Greeks knew this distinction and passed it on down to us.

  7. #17
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    ah.
    Enough with this already.
    You are being immature and apparently opposed to freedom of expression.

    I never attacked you, but simply asked you not to state everything as absolutes while rarely making sense, making statements about me and other members of the forum that proved wrong everytime apparently.

    Here's my own assumption:
    You sir are used to take advantage of the 'artist' status to provide you a socially acceptable ego shield. The latest example being you sending me private messages and calling me a HARASSER FOR POSTING THEM.
    I do not have anything to hide and am simply expressing myself.

    Making sense isn't a given, nor an obligation.
    Yet it is necessary when making firm statements about theories or people's behaviors.


    You speak of empathy
    , of which by the way, you do not seem to fully grasp the biological basis, using a vague idealized and outdated definition.
    You describe it as noble yet try, on the same thread, to pass for a victim in a perfectly dishonest way. Calling me lame in private and yet complaining publicly because I dared to answer. Using 'strong words' because you knew the emotionaly negative answer people will have hearing them. Trying to create a bias in the mind of the reader.

    Just please, accept to be called a hypocrite. You seem to have a highly idealized vision of yourself, maybe it's time to buy a mirror.

    Now for the sake of the argument: We laugh we smile we emotionaly react to others wether we want it or not. We're biologicaly programmed as social animals, which induces both, in our case, advanced social learning and basic emotional attachements and instincts in response to the other members of the social group\species.
    More complex behaviors are social based upon social rules and is useful to keep social cohesion\piece within stable groups (family, tribes).
    Empathy is a way more basic reaction, mothers for example, use empathy in order to understand their children's needs more efficiently without the use of advanced language. It has an evolutionary purpose, enhancing the survival rate of the newborn. Empathy is also aimed at less related members of the tribe.

    A few thousand years ago, social constructs such as tribes were quite small, empathy and its socially more complex and partially rule\culture based cousin (sympathy) helped the gene pool to be passed on to the next generation and by this mean, the survival of the species.
    Similar behaviors can be observed in bats notably, sharing fresh blood with other , less lucky members of the group. The bat's limited mental abilities seem to back up the idea of a mostly instinctual and therefore geneticaly defined rather than highly culturaly dependant empathy.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
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    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  8. #18
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
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    The distinction is also a bit clearer with examples. I think Victor means something like as follows:

    Ex: A hair stylist says to another, "I can't believe she came in her and started criticizing me in front of my clients. I'm like, 'how unprofessional are you that you can't just wait until we're by ourselves?'"

    Ex. of sympathetic response: The other hair stylist replies, "I know! It's totally not her place. She's such a b**ch." This reinforces the first hair stylist's sense of victimization, and so she continues to milk it to better justify her feelings of anger.

    Ex. of empathetic response: The second hair stylist listens attentively to what her friend is saying since her friend is expressing something important to her, but says nothing to accuse the person her friend is describing. The first hair stylist, having been granted the space to express her thoughts but not finding condemnation upon either herself or the other person finds through her experience evidence that her perception of this other's attack is not the only perception possible, and so she is led to question or rethink her perception. Perhaps, after all, the criticism was not a personal attack upon her and perhaps she could have thus taken it more constructively. Perhaps, after all, it doesn't matter who overhears such things because it is no cause for shame to have been in error. These are natural thoughts she might have.
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
    What is death, dies.
    What is life, lives.

  9. #19
    it's a nuclear device antireconciler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Yet it is the norm to seek sympathy here.

    Which leads to nastiness when we don't feel and think the same.
    ~ a n t i r e c o n c i l e r
    What is death, dies.
    What is life, lives.

  10. #20
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Do you believe sympathy is always incorrect, or less preferred over empathy? Would you agree there is a time for both?

    I feel your frustration here in thread and your desire to emphasize growth versus stagnation in self-pity.

    Do share your thoughts; I am interested.

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