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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir View Post
    This is not something so clear-cut as that. It might seem meaningless, or render everything else meaningless to you if you reject God, but that doesn't mean it does so for everyone. You might want to consider that most people that reject or are indecisive/indifferent about a divine power don't do it out of spite, but simply because they do not need such a concept to explain or provide meaning to life's phenomena and the way they live.

    Well, if you can accept the idea that your life will mean nothing in the long run more power to you. But that is the reality that you face. Anyone who believes that somehow they can overcome entropy does not know the true meaning of the universe.


    Do you honestly believe that if there is no God that life has a purpose? Exactly what would that be? In sixty years or so, you will die. The generation after that, well they will die as well. The third generation? Dead. Forth? Gone. Fifth. Dead, rotted, and decayed. In fact on the grand scheme of things you already have decayed. Your mind simply has not caught up with time to the reality. That is not a mobid view. THAT IS REALITY. A fact to face. The practical view.

    Suppose for a moment that you benefit people in some way you come up with a marvalous cure for cancer. What does it matter? You've only posponed the inevitable as the person or persons will die from something else. Death cannot be avoided. It cannot be cured and it cannot be barganed with.

    So if you wish to avoid that reality that awaits you and your loved ones then by all means. But one things is clear.

    If there is no God then you will lose all that you love and there is not a single thing you can do to stop it. Ever. All of your loved ones are dead and decayed alread and you will have to look upon their graves and weep for the loss that you can never recover from. All of humanity will have to accept this sooner or later. It cannot be avoided.

    If you feel that this is morbid view then perhaps you should take a trip to the local cemetary and tell me why I am wrong. Again that is reality.

    This is the fate for humans if there is no God. Any other view is delusional. Again if you do not believe that, take a trip to a graveyard.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    One stupid question

    What makes you think that Gods existance is not pointless also?
    I would not call that a stupid question as I feel there is not such thing.

    Pointless existance is what we have now as things do not last. As I said if you feel that this is stupid tell it to the 20 to 50 billion corpses in the ground.

    So if I am wrong you will have to face the fact the life is pointless as it does not last.

    Now...

    consider for a moment that I am RIGHT about God. Suppose for a moment there really is an omnipotent onniescent God.

    If God is truly limitless that means he can come up with limitless ideas. In addition since he would have the ability to keep people alive FOREVER that would change things quite a bit as you would always be around to make sure what you did mattered. THEN things that benefit people do so for eternity.

    An unlimited God with unlimited ideas could bring unlimted happiness as there would never be an limit to his ability to please people and make them content. In addition if people were to be resurrected to immortality people would not have to worry about survival and could focus completely on other things that are worth the effort.

    A pipedream? A delusion? Perhaps you view it that way. Perhaps you will roll your eyes and think that I am just some religious nut that will not accept reality as you see it. That is your right to do so and I respect your decision. Nevertheless, people here cannot say for sure there is no God. I however CAN say for sure what our fate is if there isn't.


    However I have no desire to argue about the issue so I will leave you with the thought above and move onto other topics.

  3. #33
    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elementaltale View Post
    Well, if you can accept the idea that your life will mean nothing in the long run more power to you. But that is the reality that you face. Anyone who believes that somehow they can overcome entropy does not know the true meaning of the universe.
    Then let them face it. There is no such objective meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by elementaltale View Post
    Do you honestly believe that if there is no God that life has a purpose? Exactly what would that be? In sixty years or so, you will die. The generation after that, well they will die as well. The third generation? Dead. Forth? Gone. Fifth. Dead, rotted, and decayed. In fact on the grand scheme of things you already have decayed. Your mind simply has not caught up with time to the reality. That is not a mobid view. THAT IS REALITY. A fact to face. The practical view.
    So what? You make it sound as if decaying is a bad thing. It is a natural process, and, as a human, we are no different from any other living entity. We are not outside nature, we are not outside death, and it's something you don't have to face, unless you feel the need to.

    Quote Originally Posted by elementaltale View Post
    Suppose for a moment that you benefit people in some way you come up with a marvalous cure for cancer. What does it matter? You've only posponed the inevitable as the person or persons will die from something else. Death cannot be avoided. It cannot be cured and it cannot be barganed with.
    I ask you again: So what? What is it about death's inevitability that bothers you so much?

    Quote Originally Posted by elementaltale View Post
    So if you wish to avoid that reality that awaits you and your loved ones then by all means. But one things is clear.

    If there is no God then you will lose all that you love and there is not a single thing you can do to stop it. Ever. All of your loved ones are dead and decayed alread and you will have to look upon their graves and weep for the loss that you can never recover from. All of humanity will have to accept this sooner or later. It cannot be avoided.
    Again, you might want to consider that not all of us have a problem with this idea. I could empathise with what you said if you were immortal, but you're going to end pretty much the same way. And there's no knowing whether any God, if one exists, will bring you or your loved ones back. I'd wait until death to find out.

    Quote Originally Posted by elementaltale View Post
    If you feel that this is morbid view then perhaps you should take a trip to the local cemetary and tell me why I am wrong. Again that is reality.

    This is the fate for humans if there is no God. Any other view is delusional. Again if you do not believe that, take a trip to a graveyard.
    There's basically no consistency in the things you say. Based on the things you say here, I could ask you "why do you equate this fate with being no God?" and you would not be able to answer me with anything substantial. I could also point out that you do not even seem to consider the possibility of you being delusional yourself, which hardly seems fair.
    Not really.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by elementaltale View Post
    I would not call that a stupid question as I feel there is not such thing.

    Pointless existance is what we have now as things do not last. As I said if you feel that this is stupid tell it to the 20 to 50 billion corpses in the ground.

    So if I am wrong you will have to face the fact the life is pointless as it does not last.

    Now...

    consider for a moment that I am RIGHT about God. Suppose for a moment there really is an omnipotent onniescent God.

    If God is truly limitless that means he can come up with limitless ideas. In addition since he would have the ability to keep people alive FOREVER that would change things quite a bit as you would always be around to make sure what you did mattered. THEN things that benefit people do so for eternity.

    An unlimited God with unlimited ideas could bring unlimted happiness as there would never be an limit to his ability to please people and make them content. In addition if people were to be resurrected to immortality people would not have to worry about survival and could focus completely on other things that are worth the effort.

    A pipedream? A delusion? Perhaps you view it that way. Perhaps you will roll your eyes and think that I am just some religious nut that will not accept reality as you see it. That is your right to do so and I respect your decision. Nevertheless, people here cannot say for sure there is no God. I however CAN say for sure what our fate is if there isn't.


    However I have no desire to argue about the issue so I will leave you with the thought above and move onto other topics.
    I don't want to debate it either. I just want ot say that to me living through eternity for the sake of living is pointless. I would rather die for real then accept that life.

  5. #35
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elementaltale View Post
    As I said if you feel that this is stupid tell it to the 20 to 50 billion corpses in the ground.
    Hmmm... aren't you talking to their children right now?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir View Post
    Then let them face it. There is no such objective meaning.



    So what? You make it sound as if decaying is a bad thing. It is a natural process, and, as a human, we are no different from any other living entity. We are not outside nature, we are not outside death, and it's something you don't have to face, unless you feel the need to.



    I ask you again: So what? What is it about death's inevitability that bothers you so much?



    Again, you might want to consider that not all of us have a problem with this idea. I could empathise with what you said if you were immortal, but you're going to end pretty much the same way. And there's no knowing whether any God, if one exists, will bring you or your loved ones back. I'd wait until death to find out.



    There's basically no consistency in the things you say. Based on the things you say here, I could ask you "why do you equate this fate with being no God?" and you would not be able to answer me with anything substantial. I could also point out that you do not even seem to consider the possibility of you being delusional yourself, which hardly seems fair.
    "I could ask you "why do you equate this fate with being no God?"

    Reponse: Well then by all means please share with us this plan you have of how exactly you are going to become immortal.

    I also love the fact how you know exactly how much I have considered whether I am delusional or not. I guess the last twenty years of myself asking that question is not relevent is it?


    Response: Except for one tiny problem...

    I'm the one with the 20 billion or so dead people backing up my point of view.

    So do you wish to care to explain to them where I am wrong?

    Where exactly is the delusion? What part of "we are all going to die" is incorrect?

    So what? You make it sound as if decaying is a bad thing. It is a natural process, and, as a human, we are no different from any other living entity. We are not outside nature, we are not outside death, and it's something you don't have to face, unless you feel the need to.

    Response: Well come back to me when you are laying on your deathbed and tell me the above. Then perhaps I will buy that you believe what you just stated.

    So unless you have a plan to become immortal as I have said above...

    Um, have a nice death I guess?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Hmmm... aren't you talking to their children right now?
    You were born 5,000 years ago? I am talking about all of the people and generations that have died in the past.

    You will die as well. We all will.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I don't want to debate it either. I just want ot say that to me living through eternity for the sake of living is pointless. I would rather die for real then accept that life.
    If you wish to end a life that is pointless then I would suggest shooting yourself now as it is currently pointless. There is no getting around this truth... (I don't want you to shoot yourself by the way, I am trying to prove a point)

    You can say that you have a lot to live for now and that may be true right NOW. But what about tomorrow? What about six months from now? What about a year from now? That is not clear.

    But What IS clear is at some point in time you like me and everyone else will die. THat is a fact that cannot be denied no matter how much you wish to. Sure you can push it off with doctors and medicines but death will catch up to you.

    People do not like to think about their mortality but it is pointless not to think about it as it is there and is a reality we must all face.

    Well I for one would rather look upon an alternitive even if the alternitive is a delusion for at least it gave me some comfort. After all, life is a delusion. As shakespeare once said all the world is a stage.

    You of course are entitled to disagree with this view and it will matter not to me just as my view does not matter to you. I repsect your view and you are entitled to it. I however have done enough research to feel that my view is not a delusion so I am content with that.

  9. #39
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elementaltale View Post
    You were born 5,000 years ago? I am talking about all of the people and generations that have died in the past.

    You will die as well. We all will.
    Well, I assumed you were talking about everyone who died, so it kinda includes fewer generations. Not many people died 5,000 years ago, afterall - bout 30,000 people in a generation IIRC.

    I'll die, sure. I'm failing to see the relevance. My grandparents are dead, but I'm still here.

  10. #40
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    Anyway the debate is pointless as neither side is going to convince the other. Nice chatting with you all...I guess.

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