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  1. #51
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    BTW this was a great thread by Anja.

    I am still never clear which is the true INFP shadow ESTJ or ISTP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    I haven't gotten clear with that, heart.

    Must be someone around who could help out if they aren't too busy talking about going to bed with goats.
    Naomi Quenk says that the shadow of INFP is Inferior Te.

    The 3 main ways Inferior Te manifests itself in INFPs is by

    • projecting their unconscious fears of incompetence becoming hypersensitive to others' mistakes
    • making judgments that are overly categorical, harsh, exaggerated, hypercritical and often unfounded
    • overwhelmed by the urge to take some precipitous action, usually to correct some imagined mistake which often then exacerbates the problem


    I know it's not easy to understand.
    Sorry.
    You really need the book.

    According to Quenk, an INFP tends to emerge from the grip of the inferior as they learn a new perspective from which to view their situation.

  2. #52
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    I offer what I see. Others are free to accept or reject it as they see fit.

    It's been a real freedom for me to find my voice and use it.
    Do you ever find yourself in the situation where people mistake your observation for judgement?

    I tend to find that people often start squaring up to me because I said something or other that in their head means I just labelled them as this or that. I don't think people are equipped to handle Ps in that sense... even other Ps.

    I guess this is what I get for hanging around an ESTP for too long
    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Mercy, I see an error. I misspoke. I didn't mean that "introversion" was good for self-improvement.

    I meant to say, "Introspection!"

    Guess you must have caught that, Xander.
    Not really. I wasn't being picky precisely... what you've got to bear in mind is I've absolutely no idea how old you are. Younger introverts, in my experience, quite often see introversion/ introspection as the route of all power and growth.. It took me a long while to realise that actually doing it offers different insight to just thinking about it. I just extrapolated this into a general theory that most people probably have as much to learn from either realm.
    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I am still never clear which is the true INFP shadow ESTJ or ISTP.
    If the shadow is related to stress then the two INFPs I know are definitely ordering me to respond ESTJ. If I try to question something which they included or want purely because they want to they tend to start off giving false reasoning (me being dense I always bite on reasoning... quite failing to see it's a defence mechanism) which I move past only to be met with a very angry and forceful response which kind of tries to set things in stone. The style reminds me very much of the ESTJs I work with when they're in crisis mode.... which is quite often
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #53
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    She gets away with it because of her accumulated wisdom.
    Ah... wise ass... gotcha... like her better already
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #54
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    I have a hard time with this I guess, I tend to think of the Te as Inferior function, but that shadow actually means something unconscious, deeper than the inferior function.

  5. #55
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I have a hard time with this I guess, I tend to think of the Te as Inferior function, but that shadow actually means something unconscious, deeper than the inferior function.
    Sorry, I guess I got them mixed up again.
    I thought we were speaking loosely of the "shadow" as that behavior which comes out of us when we lose control of ourselves, and in that light, Quenk calls that the eruption of the inferior. Otherwise, what is the shadow?

  6. #56
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I have a hard time with this I guess, I tend to think of the Te as Inferior function, but that shadow actually means something unconscious, deeper than the inferior function.
    As it was explained to me the tertiary is supposed to be under partial conscious control and the inferior mostly under unconscious control. If it is as it was explained then your inferior is the unconscious part and hence your shadow.... I think.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    As it was explained to me the tertiary is supposed to be under partial conscious control and the inferior mostly under unconscious control. If it is as it was explained then your inferior is the unconscious part and hence your shadow.... I think.
    So like in me, what happens to Ti? What is it considered?

    In an INTP what is Fi?

  8. #58
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    So like in me, what happens to Ti? What is it considered?
    ...
    Ti is the last or 8th function.
    This site has some comment on that:
    The 16 Type Patterns

  9. #59
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    So like in me, what happens to Ti? What is it considered?

    In an INTP what is Fi?
    The theories seem to be:

    1. Ti and Fi are different variations on the same basic kind of functioning.

    2. They are the most strongly opposed functions, such that the more of one you have, the less of you have of the other.

    3. Functions do not exist in types that don't have them consciously, they are simply simulated by combinations of other functions.

    According to #1, Ti would be a more impersonal approach to your Fi that you don't use as often. According to #2, it would be the function you had the least awareness of, and were least able to deal with. According to #3, you have no Ti, but simply simulate it via Fi, Si, and Te whenever you appear to be using it.

    I'm not sure any of them are right... or that there's even a right answer to be had in this context, honestly. It's all so much speculation.

  10. #60
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    So like in me, what happens to Ti? What is it considered?

    In an INTP what is Fi?
    I addressed this from another angle in a different thread.. INTP order of preference is TNSF. The lower case letter (e/i) refers to where the subject prefers to employ that function.

    A screwdriver which is no longer putting screws in but is instead being used to hammer in a tac is still a screwdriver.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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