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  1. #31
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    But... but my ISTP wants you to be my girlfriend! *trembly lip*
    Edited.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    , Fi sucks, I tell you
    You know it doesn't. Learn to harness its power with the aid of self-hypnosis!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    We need our personas, our egos for self protection and to operate in the world. But we take it too far. We repress that which we don't want to show in our external persona and we tend to forget it. Forgetting something and then forgetting that we forgot about it. It's needed to repress to some degree to operate from day to day but we do it too much and forget that we've done it.

    But this energy is still there and so we project it onto others around us and this tears apart our relationships and divides us from our internal teacher. When an internal situation is not recognized, it will tend to manifest externally. Our shadows will interact with our enviroment to create situations that force us to face our inner demons over and over again. Whole cultures do this in mass movements as well.

    New Age philosophies only make the problem worse because their gurus tailor the programs to appeal to the ego and provide just enough release of toxic emotion to convince people that they are healing but never get to the deeper core issues.
    This is, of course, completely true.

    Oh, how you make it difficult not to like you!

    In your quiet way, in your modest way, you show us to ourselves.

    What could be more valuable?

    I would not be the slightest bit surprised to hear you shouting immodestly from the roof tops. But instead we pause and listen to your quiet words as a lock listens to the turning of a key.

  4. #34
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I see people's shadows all the time. In fact, I tend to mistype people as their shadows because I usually see their shadows more clearly than themselves. This either freaks people out, or makes them think I'm very perceptive.

    What I actually have trouble with is seeing a person's conscious mind. It's like not being able to see someone's skin as easily as their bones because your eyes rely on x-rays rather than visible light, if that makes any sense.

    Come to think of it, I often feel that I'm treated as a shadow myself. Most people seem to go out of their way to avoid acknowledging my existence... it's almost like I have to focus very hard when I speak in order to make myself heard, otherwise they don't seem to hear me. They seem to notice and engage most other people, but there's something about me that seems to cause them to treat me like the elephant in the room. To the point that I can often go unnoticed/undetected more easily than most people without even trying. I don't know exactly what it is.

  5. #35
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    In the brilliant summer sun I saw a woman without a shadow.

    When I returned home, I could see no reflection in the mirror.

    A woman without a shadow and a man without a reflection - uncanny.

    My dog looks at me strangely.

    And babies whimper as I approach.

    And anyone, I am told, who is loved by dogs and babies is not all bad.

    But my dog continues to whine in the night.

    If only I could find that woman again.

  6. #36
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Our shadow side is the side of us that we try to keep hidden from other people. It's the well-spring of our defensiveness and the personality traits that keep us from peace with ourselves and others.

    We all have one and we've learned, rightly or incorrectly, that exposure of the dreaded shadow creates chaos for us.

    The path to health is recognition of the shadowy fella and a welcoming of him into the sunshine. This path is also strewn with the obstaces of fear, social disapproval, feelings of worthlessness and failure.

    But keeping him in the closet keeps a large part of ourselves cut off from the acceptance by others which we need. Denying our shadow thwarts our growth and self-esteem.

    Seems so counter-intuitive to think of acceptance of our darkness being the way to walk in the light, doesn't it? It should just be hidden away and then it doesn't exist, right?

    Do you see the shadow in others? Do you mention it? Can you see the shadow of yourself? Do you publicly acknowledge it?

    I posted this because sometimes when someone's shadow has suddenly popped out and caused them a problem, I will mention it. In social discourse that tends to be a no-no. And sometimes people will express their displeasure at my comments.

    It's like that old "elephant in the living room" story. It's there. Everything we are presently doing centers around it. But it is not nice to acknowledge its presence.

    The problem then becomes, "How do you solve a problem when you won't acknowledge what it actually is?" Generally we do this by projecting "His Ickiness" onto others. But that doesn't work so well. Usually it distracts us from the issue and off we go, once again fencing with shadows, everyone defensively denying their own.

    We can see this so clearly when others are doing it. And when we are, it takes a tremendous amount of courage and self-awareness to recognize it. Even more to publicly acknowledge it.

    I'd like to hear others' thoughts on how they deal with their own shadow or that rascally and problematic shadow that the other guy has. (It's worse than my own, you know! )
    The best resource I own on this subject is Beside Ourselves by Naomi Quenk.
    She has another book out now on the same subject, but I don't own it,
    and a few other books on type also.
    I haven't read the reviews yet.

    The reason I like "Beside Ourselves" is because it offers practical ideas for helping someone come out of their shadow behavior and be themselves again.

  7. #37

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    I know I will stay relaxed up to a point. Then suddenly I'll force what I want through like an unhealthy ENTJ. But doesn't everybody?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    aww...that didn't sound like any fun at all. hope things get sorted out soon.
    Haha, well, it's not so bad overall. It's just that I'd like to prevent repeating the same mistakes over and over, which is usually what leads people to need to discover new facets of their personality and thus discover their weaknesses. That can be a very positive thing and a chance for real growth, but constantly being shown what you're deficient at can be grating despite improvement in those areas over time.

  9. #39
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Our shadow side is the side of us that we try to keep hidden from other people. It's the well-spring of our defensiveness and the personality traits that keep us from peace with ourselves and others.

    We all have one and we've learned, rightly or incorrectly, that exposure of the dreaded shadow creates chaos for us.

    The path to health is recognition of the shadowy fella and a welcoming of him into the sunshine. This path is also strewn with the obstaces of fear, social disapproval, feelings of worthlessness and failure.

    But keeping him in the closet keeps a large part of ourselves cut off from the acceptance by others which we need. Denying our shadow thwarts our growth and self-esteem.

    Seems so counter-intuitive to think of acceptance of our darkness being the way to walk in the light, doesn't it? It should just be hidden away and then it doesn't exist, right?

    Do you see the shadow in others? Do you mention it? Can you see the shadow of yourself? Do you publicly acknowledge it?

    I posted this because sometimes when someone's shadow has suddenly popped out and caused them a problem, I will mention it. In social discourse that tends to be a no-no. And sometimes people will express their displeasure at my comments.

    It's like that old "elephant in the living room" story. It's there. Everything we are presently doing centers around it. But it is not nice to acknowledge its presence.

    The problem then becomes, "How do you solve a problem when you won't acknowledge what it actually is?" Generally we do this by projecting "His Ickiness" onto others. But that doesn't work so well. Usually it distracts us from the issue and off we go, once again fencing with shadows, everyone defensively denying their own.

    We can see this so clearly when others are doing it. And when we are, it takes a tremendous amount of courage and self-awareness to recognize it. Even more to publicly acknowledge it.

    I'd like to hear others' thoughts on how they deal with their own shadow or that rascally and problematic shadow that the other guy has. (It's worse than my own, you know! )
    It's plain you cast a shadow at full noon.

    Why, you even cast a shadow under the moon.

    I can see your shadow is pinned to your feet.

    It follows every step you take, it even follows your dancing feet.

    So I shall keep you locked in a dark room until you and your shadow want to dance to the beat.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Yes, greed! Continuing to make the same mistakes repeatedly! I get that. It's because of that blind spot we have regarding our shadow, I think.

    I was just reading entropies reference and when i got to the part about introverted sensation I could really identify. I work to be more aware of my physical surroundings and it takes an effort. Soon I am back in my old, more comfortable pattern of paying attention to people's feeling states and forgetting to open the window when it gets too hot in the room!

    After reading entropie's reference I think it is that failure to develop the shadow which is the source of our living problems. In that sense it would be where my "bad" side plays out.

    I'm surprised at the lack of curiousity in those who suggest not "reading too much" into the concept. And I'd suggest that it is that personal resistance to looking at what lies within which needs improvement.

    But introversion is good for self-improvement. Figuring out what doesn't work well for us is the way to find things which do work.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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