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  1. #11

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    phobosdiemos, what you wrote in your blog is something I relate to quite well. I've had similar thoughts to yours since I was about middle school too.

    I wish, I could tell you that the thoughts go away, but I am nearing thirty, and they're still there.

    I describe it as an existential loneliness--a feeling of being completely isolated no matter how many people are around.

    I have friends, all of whom I am fond of, and who are fond of me. But somehow, the deeper connection isn't there...I feel alienated somehow, even from them.

    Of course, lets not mention the trouble with women...always want to be friends, but no one thinks of you "that way." But as mentioned before, even as friends, the connection seems superficial.

    How much do you talk? If you are like me, probably not much. I don't know why. I just don't have much to say usually...at least not in THAT context.

    I hope you do find a solution (and tell the rest of us hapless people about it).

    Quote Originally Posted by phobosdiemos View Post
    I'm wondering though if seeing another therapist would be a good idea? That last two have done nothing short of write me a prescription. Talking to my family is slightly out of the question, they have helped me enough as is what with giving me a car and buying me new tires when it needed it. I'd feel like maybe I was burdening them if I brought my depressive attitudes upon them once more, as it would not be the first time...
    It is a good idea to get a second opinion if your gut tells you to do so. Keep in mind that a therapist and a psychiatrist are different. The therapist tries to help you behaviorally, while the psychiatrist tries to help medically.

    Dysthimia, Major Depression, Bipolar disorder, etc. are medical diagnoses. They are best made by psychiatrists.

    My first therapist diagnosed me with dysthimia, and my primary care physician prescribed the medicine...this was ultimately useless.

    Later, a psychiatrist, who saw me for 15-minute sessions diagnosed me with Major Depression, while I kept seeing my therapist (though the two never talked to each other). The medicine prescribed by that psychiatrist, was next to useless.

    I recently enrolled in an Intensive Outpatient Program at a psychiatric hospital, and I found their care to be the most useful--Three hours of group therapy a day with two therapists, and a nurse (who is also a qualified therapist), and (bi)weekly (10-15 minute) sessions with a psychiatrist (who met near daily with the rest of the staff). They changed the medication several times, and were monitoring to try to get me stable.

    I was in that program for three and a half months. They weren't completely able to find the right mix of medication before my insurance coverage for it ran out, but I found the therapy quite useful and informative. They even teach you how to monitor yourself, and what exactly to tell your doctors, and what to know about and ask of your doctors regarding medication.

    In this program, I realized the importance of having the therapist and psychiatrist in communication with each other.

    I now have a therapist and a psychiatrist who work out of the same office. The psychiatrist had 3 45-minute sessions, as well as 3 30-minute sessions, while talking with my therapist (who had several 45-minute) sessions before finishing the in-take (the other places had a short 15 to 30 minute session before diagnosis). My current psychiatrist, believes I am likely Bipolar II, and we're still working the diagnosis, and medication on a regular basis.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  2. #12
    Junior Member phobosdiemos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I describe it as an existential loneliness--a feeling of being completely isolated no matter how many people are around.

    I have friends, all of whom I am fond of, and who are fond of me. But somehow, the deeper connection isn't there...I feel alienated somehow, even from them.

    Of course, lets not mention the trouble with women...always want to be friends, but no one thinks of you "that way." But as mentioned before, even as friends, the connection seems superficial.
    This is almost exactly the feeling.

    [QUOTE=ygolo;513791]
    My first therapist diagnosed me with dysthimia, and my primary care physician prescribed the medicine...this was ultimately useless.
    [QUOTE=ygolo;513791]

    This exact situation occurred with me. It was funny however, because my therapist was actually quite nice. She once said "Where did you come from? You're so unique!" to me, which made me feel all but undesirable. They proscribed me Prozac at first, which was utterly useless, then Effexor XR which made me feel even more out of touch with reality (bad vertigo also).

    To Noigmn, after reading a bit about 4w5 you may be right in assuming that that's my enneagram. Although most tests have told me I was a 6w5, I feel like fear isn't exactly something that drives me more than raw passion.

    I've tested IxTx countless times, often switching between N/S and J/P. My most recent has been INTJ, though I've tested more often with ISTJ.


    I suppose what bothers me most though about my predicament is that I don't know what is causing it. It could be my roommates, it could be my lack of finances (3 days a week, minimum wage + car insurance, rent, utilities = no money for myself.), or a something more involving. Anytime I sit down to think about what might be causing my strife, I just get depressed and solve nothing.

    Thank you all for listening though, really, it seems like I can better get my thoughts out through blogs or forums than I ever could in real life.
    Introverted (I) 77.42% Extroverted (E) 22.58%
    Intuitive (N) 52.5% Sensing (S) 47.5%
    Feeling (F) 55.26% Thinking (T) 44.74%
    Perceiving (P) 50% Judging (J) 50%

    In the fog of the horizon the dawn broke. We shouted like kings at the failing night and turned our heads to the broken house. Once more our hearts faltered, once more our minds were changed, but our spirit would never die.

  3. #13
    Member hopeseed's Avatar
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    I agree, you are a talented writer. I'm not fully qualified to diagnose and so will not attempt to. I believe that most things that our society considers to be disordered are actually gifts, but misunderstood ones. A better way to put it would be, along with gifts come challenges. I struggled with OCD as a child. It's considered an anxiety disorder. Look up some things about obsessive compulsive disorder. My guess is you will find some of your experiences there. The important thing is that you do not believe you are sick, you are not sick, it just feels that way and society tells you that. But you can learn to reorder some of your thoughts and use what seems like a weakness as strength. I would suggest you find a good therapist and try to stay away from too much medication. But this is just my opinion and I am not a psychologist. Good luck to you.
    Out beyond idea's of rightdoing and wrongdoing, there is a field, I'll meet you there. ~Rumi

  4. #14
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Most likely what is causing your discomfort is your brain chemistry, phobos. You are not alone in having these feelings of existential despair and disconnection. I believe it is common in the human condition.

    Have you seen a licensed Psychiatrist? This would be the person who could best determined what medication would be beneficial to you.

    It sounds very much like depression to me. And while lowered energy level is connected to some types of depression there are other types with a restless anxiety component.

    Depression is a malevolent disorder, currently pervasive in our society. And treatable. But it takes a great deal of patience. Even the best practitioner is going to use a trial and error method to determine what medication may provide clarity and comfort for you. And because of the nature of psychoactive medications it will sometimes be a long and trying process.

    Ygolo provides some excellent suggestions. Courage and strength to you.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by phobosdiemos View Post
    To Noigmn, after reading a bit about 4w5 you may be right in assuming that that's my enneagram. Although most tests have told me I was a 6w5, I feel like fear isn't exactly something that drives me more than raw passion.
    This still sounds type four, as does the friend zone thing with relationships. The most classic feature of type 4 is comfort with emotions. People yell in arguments and you don't cower or get angry, people cry and you think I should do something but aren't really hurt by it, there is empathy but emotional comfort and you go soul searching far deeper than anyone ever wants to hear about. Fours also have the idealism in terms of closeness. There's a connection that you want that seems almost impossible to reach. Fear doesn't really mean running scared. You showed a fear of being defective in all you wrote. It seemed to be the reason you are on here. You are worried something isn't right about you. It might be a realistic fear. But as a teenager and maybe a type four, it all sounds pretty normal and healthy. You may just be around the wrong people or types to ever feel satisfied being it, or ever explore it to the level you need to. It is not bad to long for something more, actually quite healthy. They normally diagnose disorders when you avoid everything, lie to yourself and about yourself, and have no longing for these things. The fact you are looking for a connection, you aren't blaming others, you think clearly and write articulately, instantly says you are more sane than a lot of the population. And your negative thoughts are still moving in the direction of learning and positive goals. So they are probably better described as facts of reality that lots of people choose to ignore. To search them and understand them doesn't destroy you at all, it does the opposite. There will be people who were confident all their life in school who will hit their early 20s and 30s and still be that simplistic. You get one life, why not understand it completely and make the most of it. Repeating the same things to have fun for 80 years then dying always seemed like missing out and never embracing what it can be. If you want to be fixed so you can be happy and walk the straight line like everyone else, and fit in, don't do it, because not walking that line is far more fulfilling than walking it will ever be. Your thing you need is to be comfortable doing it, and being who you are, individual and different. It can seem hard, but acceptance doesn't come from similarity, trying to be the same as everyone can get annoying even because it undermines their individuality. Standing out a bit more by being the things you are would help the friend zone thing too. If people see something to love about you, they can love it. I always wanted them to love me for less superficial reasons, but these things aren't really superficial. They are what you are, so putting them out there, and being loved for them is good. Don't ever base your sanity on the view of teenage girls either, you show a lot of maturity which many of them won't have.

    Here's CCs type 4 thread. They are almost the most level emotioned of all types. But at the same time passionate and chaotic. That raw passion is something to embrace. (there is a decent NF presence in the thread that might drive a thinking type a bit insane though , you probably won't be the same as an ENFP type 4 in terms of psychology or silliness, but might have some of the same issues)

    Also if you want understanding try to find a psychologist who is interested in discussing a lot of stuff and is very open. I'm seeing one at the moment and he pretty much tells me what they learn and gives me text books to read. Learning about yourself and what causes these problems can be very rewarding.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  6. #16
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobosdiemos View Post
    I have wrote depressing notes or journal entries since I was 14 and first discovered that I could write my thoughts online.
    Try writing positive uplifting journal entries. Avoid all negativity. Write only about the positive things in your life. Write about how much better things are getting. Write about what you think would make you happy. Write about what you have to do to get there, what steps you have taken and how much progress you have made. You need a clear picture in your mind of whatever goal you think you can achieve that will make you happier. One possibility might be to force yourself to interact with people.

    It's likely these depressing journal entries have contributed to your current state of mind. Writing can have a powerful effect on the psyche.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Just another ISTJ's Avatar
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    I've been in a similar state of mind in the past and I'd have to agree with LostInNerSpace's suggestion of positivity. Don't dwell on the negatives of life, because it's quite frankly, self destructive. Don't bother with negative assumptions if you don't really know how people perceive your contributions to their lives. Hell, just ask those you consider closest to you if you really need some affirmation.

  8. #18

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    I agree, be positive. Trying to justify the worst achieves nothing. And affirmation is a big help.

    One thing I noticed is that people are generous and helpful but it isn't enough. Knowing your parents types as well as yours might be useful. Because the affirmation might be there but come in the wrong form to hit home. I have an INFJ and INTP as parents, and for them to make a direct impact on an ENFP at the core level is sometimes difficult. But understanding how they work means I receive the affirmation anyway because I see what they intended. And INTP actually does work really well for an ENFP, but they are sometimes too introverted to speak their mind in the world of feelings.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

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