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  1. #21
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    This is difficult.

    Al-Anon is a good suggestion.

    You really can't do anything for an addict until s/he finally decides on their own to stop. From what I can tell, there is little you can do other than emotionally support him when he does try to make an attempt (like rehab) to quit.

    Giving him money or helping him when he's not getting clean probably only helps him support his addiction (as you found out before).

    It's hard with someone you love. Just let him know you do love him and will be there for him when he does stop.

  2. #22
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    I don't have much to say, on the topic, except that I think an earlier piece of advice applies in a different way. I would talk to a professional (either addiction or counselor) about what role you play that is both beneficial for him and emotionally safe for you. Professionals know a lot more about addiction than the average person, not because knowledge isn't available, but because experience counts for a huge amount in the diagnosis.

    My last comment isn't all that meaningful, but be aware that our own actions are rarely motivated by honestly wanting to help someone else. Right now the tug of war is between your obligation/familiarity/etc. and frustration/distance/self-harm. In a way, cutting off contact is more about you putting distance than trying to help him. The only real justification for distance is if he really cannot be helped and he is putting a high cost on you. Otherwise you can simply say that you'll be there when he goes for help again, otherwise you aren't.

    One lesson from my own life is that you encourage dedication - for instance, if he comes and asks for help to go back to rehab, and needs money, you still don't give it to him. Your support is emotional - he has to do the work to put it together. But again, this is why I suggest talking to a professional... my situation is different than yours.

    (I suggest the professional if the interest is mostly in helping him: if it is about the impact it has on you, the answer is more obvious.)

  3. #23
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I would talk to a professional (either addiction or counselor) about what role you play that is both beneficial for him and emotionally safe for you.

    My last comment isn't all that meaningful, but be aware that our own actions are rarely motivated by honestly wanting to help someone else.


    One lesson from my own life is that you encourage dedication - for instance, if he comes and asks for help to go back to rehab, and needs money, you still don't give it to him. Your support is emotional - he has to do the work to put it together. But again, this is why I suggest talking to a professional... my situation is different than yours.

    (I suggest the professional if the interest is mostly in helping him: if it is about the impact it has on you, the answer is more obvious.)
    I agree with your position on helping others/compassion. All interactive behavior is performed with a symbiotic expectation in mind. In this case, I give him money/support because:

    1. I don't want him to suffer.
    2. I don't want to suffer.

    There really is no emotional distinction when one considers the self from another "self". Conversely, choosing to isolate myself from him reveals the same variables:

    1. I don't want him to suffer.
    2. I don't want to suffer.

    Good points.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    This is difficult.

    Giving him money or helping him when he's not getting clean probably only helps him support his addiction (as you found out before).

    It's hard with someone you love. Just let him know you do love him and will be there for him when he does stop
    .
    This is good rationale, Mac.

    Not feeding his addiction is the best route to a healthy life that I can offer him. Staying consistent in this role is the hard part.

  4. #24
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    Yeah, it's hard to stay consistent. You don't want him to suffer, you want to stop the suffering.

    Addicts also get really good at making you feel guilty. They make it like you are hurting them, but it's just the addiction talking. The addiction is the ruler of their lives until they boot it via their own choice.

  5. #25
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    if he's anything like me when comes to stopping destructive behaviors, even knowing that it needs to stop if people start telling me to quit and putting constraints on I'm likely to become more destructive. I have no real advice. of course I was planning on quitting/ getting help but I don't really voice this to people around me.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  6. #26
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I just wanted to say that you have my sympathy (and empathy) Night. Loving an addict is a painful experience in helplessness.

    And there are solutions.

    The professionals? Some of them understand addiction and others of them give all kinds of counter-productive advice.

    I really do push Alanon here because I have seen it bring a new perspective to many people over the years. And peace of mind regardless of whether the addict changes or not. It truly, if applied correctly, makes a difference in the unenviable position you find yourself in.

    And what's cool about it is that you are receiving help from people who've been there/done that, not people who've learned from a book. They know what you are feeling and are living examples of what works.

    And. It's free!

    __________________________________________________ ________

    Something which has always amused and distressed me is how much people who love addicts become mirror images of the addict himself. They carry the same feelings of guilt, helplessness and anger as the addict does. And, as the addict, can be very resistant to the idea that they could use some help!

    Big encouraging hugs and healthy energy sent your way.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  7. #27

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    I don't know about INFPs, but if he was ENFP the best solution would be to get him to see something better he can do instead. If the choice is between addiction, and nothing; or addiction, and conformity, addiction will always seem the attractive option. It does damage to one's self but it gives some fulfillment. The void does not.

    I think what I'm saying is to be an addict and not seek help normally requires an underlying problem. Like he wants to check out from the world in the first place, and the alcohol helps that. Having a group of people who want to check him into rehab may not help this. In a way, it puts you on the side of the enemy. The connection that you are checking him into rehab because you care, might not be made as strongly by him. Love and support, and him seeing something he really wants in life, is the most likely thing to motivate him to get out of it. Find what his dreams in life are, or help him find them. You guys want him to finish college, complete a degree, be successful. He might want to be something completely different.

    Offering financial support also creates a dependence relationship. If you be a brother instead, as said in earlier posts, it will be a more healthy relationship. Go visit with food and play PS3 or something. Help him see what he is missing by avoiding social stuff. Help him to get out more and do the stuff he wants. Try to make it a smooth ride with few expectations, or emotional stress also. The stress in relationships may be one of the things that drives him to rehide in the addiction. You can't convince him to change, just help him see reasons to convince himself.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    I'm gonna go at this again:

    If he has been drinking problematically long enough to pile up that many treatments he needs to drink in order to feel normal. He will feel uncomfortable, or downright sick, when he tries to abstain.

    You can't punish or bribe an alcoholic to stop. Not for long, I should say. You can actually do very little until he can see/feel his own mess.

    The "underlying problem" is a red herring at this point. Actually some alcoholics will use that excuse as a reason not to quit.

    Example: "I'll quite drinking when some of the pressure is off me. Right now I'm just too tense."

    Don't wanna go there with an addict. Horse and carrot works but that comes later in the recovery.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  9. #29
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I think the support groups referenced are good. Not only can they provide emotional encouragement, but they have lots of collective experience in situations such as these, specifically.

    Dealing with my father's 40+ year addiction, I really wasn't able to make headway and I eventually just emotionally detached from him. For many years I experienced guilt over how I was unable to save him or get through to him; then I accepted that he wasn't ready to change. I don't know the best way to get through; I just know that, if the person isn't ready and committed to changing and facing themselves and their own behaviors and attitudes, then you either won't be able to make them do it either, and anything you give them will be taken from you without any positive response, and even if you force something out of them, it'll never make any long-term change.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #30
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Addicts also get really good at making you feel guilty. They make it like you are hurting them, but it's just the addiction talking. The addiction is the ruler of their lives until they boot it via their own choice.
    Yep, been there done that with an in-law. In my opinion, there is nothing you can do until the addict realises that there is a problem and that they want to do something about it. IME, there's not really anything you can do to speed up that process. And some of coming to terms with watching someone who is addicted is coming to terms with the idea that they may never sort themselves out and may never live a healthy life.

    Edit: Anja's suggestion of Al-Anon sounds like a good one. Family dynamics does play into it.
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

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