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  1. #11
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    The biggest problem I see with MBTI is that it deals with probability and not certainty. And like all probability it can tell you what is definitely true about a group without being able to tell you what is definitely true about any individual in that group. In effect almost everyone is an exception to the typology in some way. On the other hand it can help still help us understand a lot about ourselves and each other.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    MBTI is about how you organize information at an unconscious level. It's not a personality type, which I quite like about it.
    Actually I'd say that it's both. The introverted functions (Ni, Si, Ti, Fi) explain the cognition of a person that others cannot see. On the other hand the extraverted functions (Ne, Se, Te, Fe) explain the cognition of a person that others can see and thus they in many ways shape an individual's personality.
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  2. #12
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Actually I'd say that it's both. The introverted functions (Ni, Si, Ti, Fi) explain the cognition of a person that others cannot see. On the other hand the extraverted functions (Ne, Se, Te, Fe) explain the cognition of a person that others can see and thus they in many ways shape an individual's personality.
    True, but all that would change is the "flavor" of the external cognitive functions. What I mean more specifically is that I can stop receiving most input via Ni and manipulating it via Te about as much as I could decide that I'd like to stop being the race that I am. (To use myself as an example.) Type can change, of course, but this requires either a very long period of time or some extreme event in one's life.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

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  3. #13
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    True, but all that would change is the "flavor" of the external cognitive functions. What I mean more specifically is that I can stop receiving most input via Ni and manipulating it via Te about as much as I could decide that I'd like to stop being the race that I am. (To use myself as an example.) Type can change, of course, but this requires either a very long period of time or some extreme event in one's life.
    Ah yes I see what you mean. A person is extremely limited in their ability to affect how and when their cognitvive functions work.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimpei View Post
    Age - you're not the same INTP at the age of 18, 30, 45 and 70 etc. You can even change type meanwhile.
    No.

    You do not change type.
    Look at the studies of identical twins who have lived under different conditions.
    And then look at the studies of foster children who have lived in the same home.

    When you live with your natural parents you get the inheritance in a double suit.
    The environment has already been influenced by the genetic input.

    Hence it is difficult to distinguish the phenotype from the genotype.
    The original type can be seen best in the old age.

  5. #15
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    No.

    You do not change type.
    This sounds like dogma to me. How do you know?

  6. #16
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    Type preferences can change as interests fluctuate, but temperament, in theory, stays the same.

    And the correlation between Keirsey temperament and MBTI type is generally quite high. I think I read it was even higher than the correlation between MBTI and FFM, though they, too, are correlated, as Ptgatsby has pointed out on numerous occasions.

    I'm gonna derail for a moment because I love to ramble:

    Since I brought up FFM, Openness to Experience factor on FFM measures reflectiveness (Openness on FFM correlates to S and N, even though the factor title sounds more like J and P). I think reflectiveness is more related to Intuition than Introversion. Introversion is more related to your impressions of either what's around you or your own thoughts. Intuition literally means "to look inward," while Introversion is "to turn inward."

    Alright. Now let's get the train back on the right track. That is all.

  7. #17
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon67 View Post
    This sounds like dogma to me. How do you know?
    Hungarians changed their national type.
    They changed their genes.
    If you can change your genes you can change type.

  8. #18
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon67 View Post
    This sounds like dogma to me. How do you know?
    By definition of type more than dogma. The only dogma that exists is the belief in type despite contrary evidence and/or alternative theories (not to say that exists, but by definition, that'd be where the dogma exists).

  9. #19
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon67 View Post
    After having read a fair survey of forum posts and topics, I notice that it's common for us to extrapolate all sorts of things from type. This tendency to read type into every aspect of a person's life is likely a distortion of the way people really work, if not outright incorrect.

    For example, there are many factors that typing simply cannot take into account.

    Intelligence is not a function of type (though test-taking ability may have a limited correlation). Likes, dislikes, and desires are only partly linked to type. Type does not account for acculturation, training, or life experience. Type does not correlate with physical or mental pathology.

    Yet all of these things can and do influence an individual's decision-making process.

    What are other ways in which personality typing is limited?
    PTypes - Correspondence of PTypes, Keirsey, Enneagram, Psychiatric, and Astrological Types

    Behaviorism is dead.

  10. #20
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post

    Behaviorism is dead.
    Amen!

    I promise you, there is such a thing as cognition.

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