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  1. #21
    Senior Member me_plus_one's Avatar
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    I am not that experienced with types... but I'd like to say something too.

    During school, I had to work with an ENTJ (it's not a supossition, I actually tested him) on a long term project, which was the school magasine.

    He totally thrived on being a chief, no matter how hard the work was. He was inflexible (well, in his mind, he was convinced that he was flexible and openminded) and such a bad people's person, despite the fact he was completely aware of how people thought of him because he talked to them like idiots. If they were not important to him, he didn't even bother to be nice. And that including members of our team.

    He absolutely loved making plans and lists and to organize stuff. During this work, I was going crazy, he always asked for deadlines and lists, lists, lists :horor:

    What is shocking is that yeah, he was very conceptual, but was simply unaware of how things really were. Just because he had granted a great importance to our project, he simply couldn't realize that for somebody else, it didn't matter...

  2. #22
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I'm an ENTJ and not a big fan of lists. I think they are useful when there's a lot to do in a very short amount of time, so that nothing is forgotten. Otherwise, more freedom is generally much more productive.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #23
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    You are also grammatically incorrect, my dear sirs.
    Awesomeness gets ya laid faster than correct grammar
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  4. #24
    Senior Member me_plus_one's Avatar
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    I also know ENTJs that are laidback and cool, but probably that one was too hardcore for me

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by me_plus_one View Post
    I also know ENTJs that are laidback and cool, but probably that one was too hardcore for me
    How laid back and cool? Like will an ENTJ or INTJ ever have a messy room? Or is this always a P thing?

    I swear the person I'm figuring out holds most of the ENTJ characteristics, and approaches most things as a J, but has the laid back habits of a P.

    Also what counts as theoretical? If someone can tell you everything about certain areas and how to approach them, what certain things depend on, pretty much an optimised version of the underlying theory is that NTJ? I don't have a really good idea of Te... Or is an STP likely get to this stuff too by just absorbing and analysing the right things as they go? ie. question is does a total command of underlying theory suggest N, even if theoretical discussion seems rare? Or is a clear knowledge of what depends on what in discussion, what theoretical is?
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  6. #26
    Senior Member sonata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    Like will an ENTJ or INTJ ever have a messy room?
    Yes.

    Also what counts as theoretical? If someone can tell you everything about certain areas and how to approach them, what certain things depend on, pretty much an optimised version of the underlying theory is that NTJ? I don't have a really good idea of Te... Or is an STP likely get to this stuff too by just absorbing and analysing the right things as they go? ie. question is does a total command of underlying theory suggest N, even if theoretical discussion seems rare? Or is a clear knowledge of what depends on what in discussion, what theoretical is?
    That could be either. Ns do not have a monopoly on theoretical thought, although a few of us seem to think so.

    I think an NTJ would be more likely than an STP to diverge from the theory of "certain areas and how to approach them, what certain things depend on" and start discussing the theory of completely strange, abstract, and seemingly impractical things.

  7. #27
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    How laid back and cool? Like will an ENTJ or INTJ ever have a messy room? Or is this always a P thing?

    I swear the person I'm figuring out holds most of the ENTJ characteristics, and approaches most things as a J, but has the laid back habits of a P.
    I don't know if the person you are trying to categorize is an ENTJ, but I will tell you in which ways I am laid back and cool and in which ways I'm not.
    Laid back:
    - in unimportant areas of my life, I can be messy (ex. my closet)
    - i don't care about leading people unless they specifically ask me
    - i think people should live the way they want, i don't like to push upon the specific expectations
    - i don't care when people don't respect deadlines, as long as it doesn't affect my paycheck

    Not laid back:
    - when asked to do something, I always do it right away. If people change their mind about the task, it's usually too late, since I've likely already finished
    - i'm very punctual and rather intolerant of people being not punctual (say, more than 20 minutes late). I won't get pissed at them, but they will get a -1 in my "trust book"
    - i don't handle well changes of plans, unless these plans were about very minor things (say, if to go ice skating or skiing). You could say I'm a bit inflexible once a decision has been reached

    Also what counts as theoretical? If someone can tell you everything about certain areas and how to approach them, what certain things depend on, pretty much an optimised version of the underlying theory is that NTJ? I don't have a really good idea of Te... Or is an STP likely get to this stuff too by just absorbing and analysing the right things as they go? ie. question is does a total command of underlying theory suggest N, even if theoretical discussion seems rare? Or is a clear knowledge of what depends on what in discussion, what theoretical is?
    Harder to tell. An ISTP or ESTP that has studied the theory could just as easily do what you are referring to.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #28
    Senior Member me_plus_one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    How laid back and cool? Like will an ENTJ or INTJ ever have a messy room? Or is this always a P thing?

    I swear the person I'm figuring out holds most of the ENTJ characteristics, and approaches most things as a J, but has the laid back habits of a P.
    Yep, ENTJs with messy rooms, always, but always late, and willing to change plans.

    About the theoretical part, I think an NTJ might be able to outline a conceptual model of something, meanwhile the STP might see how and why it might or might not work when implemented...

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by me_plus_one View Post
    Yep, ENTJs with messy rooms, always, but always late, and willing to change plans.

    About the theoretical part, I think an NTJ might be able to outline a conceptual model of something, meanwhile the STP might see how and why it might or might not work when implemented...
    STPs are pretty hands on yeh? In a girl though there is less playing with technical stuff, so how does it present?

    Are STPs pretty self assured and assertive normally? Do they hold things like assertiveness to be a virtue?

    And how does the NTJ theorising present? Is it way less abstract than an NTP seeing the Ni part? Like intuiting is less obvious to see? I notice when she is very certain on problems, she doesn't like me questioning or suggesting otherwise.

    Is there anything cognitive that is a real give away? Even if it is subtle I'll realise it.

    About the theoretical part, I think an NTJ might be able to outline a conceptual model of something, meanwhile the STP might see how and why it might or might not work when implemented...
    So getting excited and telling me every fact on a science topic speaking constantly for an hour, and finding it amusing that someone will listen, would be more like which type?
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    STPs are pretty hands on yeh? In a girl though there is less playing with technical stuff, so how does it present?
    I know a lot of ESTP saleswomen, which can be seen as "hands-on" concerning people. SP can manifest itself in detailed art, creativity, and decorating, too.. NTJ's are not normally bothered with that sort of thing.

    Are STPs pretty self assured and assertive normally? Do they hold things like assertiveness to be a virtue?
    Very assertive and outgoing, and they seem to like someone else challenging them in an assertive manner sometimes.. so I can see where they'd see that as a virtue.

    And how does the NTJ theorising present? Is it way less abstract than an NTP seeing the Ni part? Like intuiting is less obvious to see?
    NTJ is probably less abstract and more practical than NTP, as if the musing thoughts must serve some purpose. They're also usually directed and don't jump around vastly different topics as much.

    I notice when she is very certain on problems, she doesn't like me questioning or suggesting otherwise.
    This suggests J to me, but it could also be an STP's assertiveness manifesting itself.

    Is there anything cognitive that is a real give away? Even if it is subtle I'll realise it.
    More improvisation implies xSTP, more planning implies xNTJ.. but I guess that much is obvious.

    So getting excited and telling me every fact on a science topic speaking constantly for an hour, and finding it amusing that someone will listen, would be more like which type?
    xSTP could be looking for an audience in this case. If the discussion is detailed enough to last an hour and is one-sided, you're probably looking at ESTP behavior.

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