Avoiding arrogance AND anxious doubt...any tips?

[Anja]

Does it have so much to do with open-mindedness / uncertainty as it does for getting an accurate gauge on your skills and abilities?

How does arrogance hamper with progress? Only if you're arrogant without substance to back up your attitude. Nobody grudges an arrogant genius... It goes with the position.

Perhaps the two issues are being confused here. It's not so much arrogance as complacence that slows us down. After all, you can look down upon others and still see the need to better yourself...

I had this thought on semantics as I was posting.

I'm wondering if you didn't mean overconfidence, Ygolo. Having an unrealistic view of one's knowledge and ability. The question does address what you are able to do or know, for sure.

That's why I believe it's important not to fall into the competition trap in regards to personal worth.

Who has more money is one thing. That's an obvious tangible. But who is the more qualified/knowledgeable person is something else altogether. Impossible to have an accurate view of how you're doing in the personal values department if you try to measure anothers' worth or have them measure you against their own values system. You know how much we dislike having others size us up and how often we feel that they are incorrect. Works both ways.

You don't want to go there even though it's an irresistible part of our nature as social animals. You'll always come up lacking somewhere down the line. Not good for your self esteem to compare yourself to others. Gonna tip too far one way or the other. Leaves you constantly re-evaluating your comparative worth. See what I'm saying?

Measure yourself by your own skills and abilities and you don't have to lose track everytime someone new comes along once you can more accurately judge your potential.

An afterthought in regards to the Wall Street suicides which I'm guessing we'll see more of in time. Put all your eggs in the "Who has more money?" game and what happens should you lose it? Apparently for some people life is no longer worth living. Get what I'm saying about personal qualities? You need many measures to create a life worth living.

 

[LucrativeSid]

I understand what you, and may others are getting at. It's good if you can live anxiety free that way.

But in the example of your car, there are the original desinger who did have to worry about all sorts of stuff. It was then built on an assembly line where they had to worry about defects. Then these cars were mass produced, so that people like us don't have to worry too much about these things. But when your perspective changes, it is hard not to worry.

I know an Air Force captain, who hates flying because he knows too much about planes.

I like the idea of not judging my own perspective. But, sometimes, I feel obliged to hold that perspective together, despite there being a constant onslaught against it. There is often a need to justify my perspective on things, because people usually only understand a small fraction of what I am trying to relate.

I hold my perspective together, too, because I need it and I enjoy it. And even if nobody agrees with it or understands it, it's really not that big of a deal. We connect on the things that really matter. We're all human. We're really not that different. Nothing is. We are one.

Looking for something more practical?

 

[LostInNerSpace]

I like the idea of not judging my own perspective. But, sometimes, I feel obliged to hold that perspective together, despite there being a constant onslaught against it. There is often a need to justify my perspective on things, because people usually only understand a small fraction of what I am trying to relate.

Yes. I know exactly what you're talking about. I avoid saying certain thiings because I don't feel some people have enough perspective to understand my perspective. That's not arrogance.

 

[Anja]

So. Since your last post I'm not sure if your anxiety is due to worrying about making mistakes or being wrong.
Or whether it's worry about what could go wrong and accidents.
Or whether it's biochemical like too much caffeine, etc.
Or if it's a bother to not feel understood by others.

Any and all of the above are bothersome. And any and all of the above will happen.

So is it the weight that you put on any of those things happening? Because they do and will. So maybe your focus could be on learning that you have the ability to deal with any of the above?

The question would be, I suppose, the degree of anxiety you have when you are not swinging into what you've called "arrogance."

 

[ygolo]

So. Since your last post I'm not sure if your anxiety is due to worrying about making mistakes or being wrong.
Or whether it's worry about what could go wrong and accidents.
Or whether it's biochemical like too much caffeine, etc.
Or if it's a bother to not feel understood by others.

Any and all of the above are bothersome. And any and all of the above will happen.

So is it the weight that you put on any of those things happening? Because they do and will. So maybe your focus could be on learning that you have the ability to deal with any of the above?

The question would be, I suppose, the degree of anxiety you have when you are not swinging into what you've called "arrogance."

OK. I was hoping more peoplel had experienced what I had talked about, but it seems I need to provide more context/detail.

You know how most kids ask "Why is the sky blue?" Well, I did too. But when they gave the "scientific" answer, I then asked "OK. Then why is the sky not violet?" At which point, I was called a "smart alec" and was told to why I don't ask why the "sky is not golden rod, or chartruse?" But those colors didn't specifically deal with the reason given for whay the sky is blue.

I had disagreements with teachers quite often. Especially in science class. But also when we had which one of these things don't belong questions in English class--I could come up with a reason for whay each of the four words in turn was the one that doesn't belong.

When I read the Lion, Witch, and Wordrobe in 3rd grade, I remember getting downright angry when I read the old professor's "Logic Lesson" and people looking at me like I was some sort of freak.

As I grew up, I learned that I had to learn what the "majority viewpoint" was for my own survival, even if I disagreed with it. But figuring out the majority view point is always a guessing game, and it is hard to actually know what it is.

In addition, I often want to articulate my own view-point, and it is hard to do in the cacophany of majority opinion around.

This is the source of my anxiety--what perspective (from a practical standpoint) do I take at what time?

 

[Anja]

Okay. Gotcha! I get it now.

Gotta say that sounds pretty INFP to me and I can strongly identify with it. In the world of possibilities we are great conversationlists about what is foreign to others. When I was young I was continuously stumbling into this sort of thing. I still do but I suppose I've just grown accustomed to it and say to myself, "Oh yeah, there THAT was again." Hee.

What to say? If you expand your world there will be an increasing number of people who "get" what you're saying and you learn to let go of others when you can't make yourself understood.

It just isn't going to go the way which is the easiest for us. Learn the fine art of shrugging at yourself?

I don't know what else to say to this one. Keep affirming yourself while you stay open to new ideas, do the best you can and learn to be satisfied with what is.

Edit: Are you plagued by perfectionism?

 

[ygolo]

Okay. Gotcha! I get it now.

Gotta say that sounds pretty INFP to me and I can strongly identify with it. In the world of possibilities we are great conversationlists about what is foreign to others. When I was young I was continuously stumbling into this sort of thing. I still do but I suppose I've just grown accustomed to it and say to myself, "Oh yeah, there THAT was again." Hee.

What to say? If you expand your world there will be an increasing number of people who "get" what you're saying and you learn to let go of others when you can't make yourself understood.

It just isn't going to go the way which is the easiest for us. Learn the fine art of shrugging at yourself?

I don't know what else to say to this one. Keep affirming yourself while you stay open to new ideas, do the best you can and learn to be satisfied with what is.

Edit: Are you plagued by perfectionism?

I am curious as to why it sounds INFP.

Anyway, its good to know it gets better.

As for perfectionism, I don't think I am, but I have been asked that enough that I wonder.

 

[Anja]

Well, when you asked why the sky was blue what you were conceiving was that it could just as easily be some other color. But others, thinking Sensors here, thought the question was "What makes the blue tint of the sky?" The thought of some other color didn't occur to them without you stating it. You were conceiving of a possibility which didn't enter into their perspective. And that just sounds like the way my mom described my questions. And it is also the kind of frustration I often had in science classes, etc.

It's actually more of a spiritual question than a science question. And your desciption of trying to figure out what "language" the group you're with is speaking sounds very familiar to me. I often leave things out in my statements which seem obvious to me but the omission of which confuses others.

And, maybe because it happens so often to us, we INFPs grow pretty cautious and easily frustrated by its occurrence.

Perfectionism is a hazard of the INFP type. We like things to be "nice." Perfect the way we just know they could be if the world of people and physical things would only cooperate. :steam: Heh.

I dunno. If you are a possibility seer it probably doesn't occur to you that you may be expecting an awfully lot of yourself.

 

[ygolo]

Well, when you asked why the sky was blue what you were conceiving was that it could just as easily be some other color. But others, thinking Sensors here, thought the question was "What makes the blue tint of the sky?" The thought of some other color didn't occur to them without you stating it. You were conceiving of a possibility which didn't enter into their perspective. And that just sounds like the way my mom described my questions. And it is also the kind of frustration I often had in science classes, etc.

It's actually more of a spiritual question than a science question. And your desciption of trying to figure out what "language" the group you're with is speaking sounds very familiar to me. I often leave things out in my statements which seem obvious to me but the omission of which confuses others.

It's interesting how we all read into particular situations.

I did mean it as a science question.

The usual explanation for why the sky is blue because shorter wavelenghts are scattered and we see those wavelenghts reflected back to us. So since violet is a shorter wavelength still, why was the sky not violet? I could understand not ultra-violet because we couldn't see it.

And, maybe because it happens so often to us, we INFPs grow pretty cautious and easily frustrated by its occurrence.

Perfectionism is a hazard of the INFP type. We like things to be "nice." Perfect the way we just know they could be if the world of people and physical things would only cooperate. :steam: Heh.

I dunno. If you are a possibility seer it probably doesn't occur to you that you may be expecting an awfully lot of yourself.

I suppose I do see potential for improvements everyehere.

 

[nightning]

I'm not sure how skills play a role in this. I am mainly talking about perspective.

Also, geniuses are bregudged quite often, arrogant or not.

B. Fuller was moments away from drowning himself. Newton had a nervous break dewn before writing the Principia, a falure as a farmer, and a mediocre student; as an adult he spent more time on Alchemy than Physics, and was taken in by the Tulip Bulb scheme, and generally dislike by many of his peers. Einstein lectured to empty rooms, and was not regarded as much od a scientist till his theories proved true. Darwin was thought by his father to be a failure at life.

I was referring to self evaluation... how closely our perception to self reflects reality. Having proud in our work (and more or less in more skills) is a good thing to have. It becomes a problem when we're complacence... (which I doubt you would) or that our perception is false. That is we are "arrogant", believing self is better than others, when in fact we are not. That will then lead to lofting.

The reverse case is anxiety and doubt of one's abilities. That is we see ourselves as being less than what we're actually capable of. Therefore we always go for the low hanging fruits. Never truly do we reach our potentials.

That's what I mean by the importance of having an accurate gauge on our abilities.

 

[entropie]

Anyway, how does one deal with this reality?

Of not being closed minded due to pride, but not being anxious due to doubt?

That's a cool question.

Thats all I wanted to say .

 

[GargoylesLegacy]

That's a cool question.
Thats all I wanted to say .

*lol* I so knew you were gonna say something like that. You are awesome, entro.

Of not being closed minded due to pride, but not being anxious due to doubt?

I know that problem too. It is always hard to keep a balance. With everything. The chance to go towards an extreme is kinda always given. It can be a life-long struggle to keep the balance, unless you like being "an extreme" of some sort. Personally I don't.

Theoretically I would have to answer something like "You keep the balance like you keep it with every other trait". But I am not sure that helps a lot. So let's try to make an effort here.

Personally I know there is always somebody who will be better than me at something, no matter how good I am. That is just a fact. And if not, sooner or later there will be somebody who is. You wanting to keep "the record" would just be freaking much work and at the same time useless. Because even though there is always somebody who is better than you, there also always is somebody who is worse. And that is, what you need to remember.

If - let's say - you are good at something be proud and enjoy it. Be happy you became so good at it.
I think to keep the balance it is the best thing to "enjoy the moment". Personally when I achieved something I don't think about who is better or worse than me. I just try to enjoy the moment. I enjoy that "I did it" and I am proud for that moment. I feel good in that very instant.

In case you tend to go towards one of the extremes, just recall the thing with the other people. That's probably the best way to balance it, if you start to see a trend.
At least it works for me. I guess it is a pretty individual thing. Everyone needs to find his own way. Others can just tell you how they do it and inspire you.

 

[Anja]

Hey. What Nightning, Entropie and Gargoyle's said!

You know, I think we are talking about humility here. And the fact that you are examining that balance between "I'm the bomb." and "I suck." indicates that you are well on the path to an honest self-concept. Gee. I think some people never even think about it.

(Notice my Youthspeak? Hee.)

 

[ygolo]

Interesting thoughts, everyone.

I'll have to cogitate on them for a while...

In the mean-time, perhaps we can switch roles and ask:

Why is it important to keep updating one's perspective?

I'd be interested in people's answer to this as it relates to my orignal questions.

 

[ThatGirl]

Accept the fact that if you dont know everything its ok, because some day you will, and that starts with --->

Look at capability and possibility before making concrete judgments about yourself.

Why is it important to keep updating one's perspective?

Well this will sound stupid, but because things are constantly evolving and changing,

I cant help but keep up on my perspective.

 

[nightning]

In the mean-time, perhaps we can switch roles and ask:

Why is it important to keep updating one's perspective?

I'd be interested in people's answer to this as it relates to my orignal questions.

Very much what thatgirl said. The world changes, if we don't change with it, then we'll go extinct like the dinosaurs did. Survival of the fittest as according to Darwin... Fitness referring to being the most adaptive.

 

[ThatGirl]

Very much what thatgirl said. The world changes, if we don't change with it, then we'll go extinct like the dinosaurs did. Survival of the fittest as according to Darwin... Fitness referring to being the most adaptive.

Did you know that you can actually evolve or adapt yourself into extiction, I thought that was a total trip.

 

[ygolo]

Did you know that you can actually evolve or adapt yourself into extiction, I thought that was a total trip.

Yes. It is interesting you bring it up here.

So. we need to keep udating our perspective because reality itself is changing.

Keeping roles still reversed.

How do we know what part of our perspective to change?

 

[LostInNerSpace]

Why is it important to keep updating one's perspective?

That's how we learn. Nobody knows everything. You can't plug your brain into the Matrix like Neo and download Stochastic Calculus or whatever--not yet anyway. Learning takes a lot of elbow grease, obviously. The way I learn something is by looking at it from as many different perspectives as possible. I go though countless books doing just that. Different people have different pieces of the puzzle. Some people might explain one thing extremely well, but totally suck at explaining other important aspects of the same topic. People often illustrate principles with different metaphors and analogies--each adding a little more color to the overall picture. Another way I learn is by explaining to other people, usually in poorly written blog postings. Teaching is one of the best ways to learn partly because it forces you to crystallize your thinking, but also because the students will almost always bring a different perspective on something to the table. They might completely misinterpret something in an interesting way forcing you explain why their version was incorrect, if indeed it was incorrect.

 

[ThatGirl]

Yes. It is interesting you bring it up here.

So. we need to keep udating our perspective because reality itself is changing.

Keeping roles still reversed.

How do we know what part of our perspective to change?

Well, thats a more complicated question, I suppose keeping it as broad as possible and always maintaining the ability to shift if necessary so you dont lock yourself in. I suppose on a more theoretical approach, you're existing in all things at once yet belong to none, and still yet could survive in any if that is the only option. Its a contradiction in where you can become specialized and yet dont necessarily commit to perspective.