User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 46

  1. #11
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    2,967

    Default

    The key for me, Ygolo, was learning not to measure my worth by someone else's yardstick. As I get to know myself I have a better understanding of what I am capable of and where my limitations lie.

    Then, instead of comparing myself to someone else, I measure my progress by my own goals and capabilities. This produces a more honest and realistic viewpoint of how I'm doing.

    What shows on the outside to others? I hope a balanced human who knows, accepts and challenges himself.

    When I was in my twenties and thirties I was confronted several times with wearing an arrogant presentation. That puzzled me because I wasn't aware of feeling arrogant.

    In time I figured out that when I encountered a situation I was unsure of that appearance of arrogance would show to others. It was a defense, apparently. An attempt to appear competent when I was afraid that I wasn't. It was actually fear which was misinterpreted by those around me because I was trying to hide it.

    What a social mess that would create! It held me apart from others in the need to protect my "secret" and caused others to feel wary in my presence.

    As I've gotten to know myself better and learned coping skills for different types of social situations I have dropped that fear of managing in unfamiliar situations.

    I've learned to say, "I don't know." or "Give me your thoughts on this." And with that I have learned to function interactionally, getting external feedback from others while I monitor myself and my perceptions.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  2. #12
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    I suppose I am reffereing to "closed minded certitude," which was a phrase coined on this forum regarding both INT types.

    What are some techniques to achieve that?
    You answered your own question when you talked about your relationship with your pride. If you can't admit the other person is right, learn to walk away from the argument when you know they are making sense.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Travo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    IN??
    Enneagram
    IDK
    Posts
    112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    My relationship with my pride is a funny one.

    Pride is known as one of the deadly sins--I think for good reason.

    Pride can blind one to other possibilies: better alternatives to the options one has accepted, better explanations for what is hapining in one's world, better understanding of the basic facts, better POV fo particular aspects of reality, etc.

    But always thinking there is someone who is more knowledgable, more qualified, more cabable, more cometent, at whatever one's role is tiring, and can eventually hurt self-esteem.

    Still, with nearly 7 billion people on the planet, it seems also likely to be true.

    Not being certain (that is having doubt) that ones perspective is the one to keep, is the opposite of the pride to which I am refering.

    Anyway, how does one deal with this reality?

    Of not being closed minded due to pride, but not being anxious due to doubt?

    Or to put it more positively, to have doubt, but be calm about it?
    I see what you're saying. I think this way too.

    IMO, well, at least for me, I try to "keep an open mind" to the possibility that one could know more than me, or not, in certain areas, related to my interests or they could know more in other areas that are not my interest.
    this way I believe everyone knows and doesn't know more than I do.
    people are often multi-faceted in this way, and often you can learn something valuable from the most apparently "incompetent" people. Life and it's many aspects are too vast to say that one knows more than the other, without getting into specific fields of knowledge.

    A lot of confusion may arise from the fact that many people also staunchly believe that their views/opinions/ideals are the best ones, and unwillingly (unkowingly?) close themselves off from differing perspectives. That and also cultural definitions of the valuable content, and nature of knowledge can have great influence on one's self perception.

    I guess knowing that others aren't as "competent" as they would have you believe is key here, as far as being able to be calm about it.

    Again this works for me, I can't say if this will help you at all. Interesting topic.

  4. #14
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    The key for me, Ygolo, was learning not to measure my worth by someone else's yardstick. As I get to know myself I have a better understanding of what I am capable of and where my limitations lie.

    Then, instead of comparing myself to someone else, I measure my progress by my own goals and capabilities. This produces a more honest and realistic viewpoint of how I'm doing.

    What shows on the outside to others? I hope a balanced human who knows, accepts and challenges himself.

    When I was in my twenties and thirties I was confronted several times with wearing an arrogant presentation. That puzzled me because I wasn't aware of feeling arrogant.

    In time I figured out that when I encountered a situation I was unsure of that appearance of arrogance would show to others. It was a defense, apparently. An attempt to appear competent when I was afraid that I wasn't. It was actually fear which was misinterpreted by those around me because I was trying to hide it.

    What a social mess that would create! It held me apart from others in the need to protect my "secret" and caused others to feel wary in my presence.

    As I've gotten to know myself better and learned coping skills for different types of social situations I have dropped that fear of managing in unfamiliar situations.

    I've learned to say, "I don't know." or "Give me your thoughts on this." And with that I have learned to function interactionally, getting external feedback from others while I monitor myself and my perceptions.
    This makes sense. I constantly question my own competence. But I freely admit it. It drives me towards achieving more and more. It makes me wonder what drives other people forward without that need to make more money and achieve more success. Some people will say there is something wrong with wanting to make more money and be more successful. I disagree. I think humans are inherently competitive, and I want to play this game. This is like sport for me.

    I regularly say "I don't know." or "Give me your thoughts." . I make a point of it. I know some people see me as arrogant. Maybe sometimes I can be a little arrogant. I'm not going to issue a blanket apology. Everyone has weaknesses. I know my limits and my weaknesses and I think overall I do a pretty good job of keeping my ego in check. More so than a lot of people.

    I don't think it's realistic to say we should not compare ourselves with other people. That's just how we are wired. Pretty much everything we perceive is interpreted on a relative basis.

  5. #15
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Does it have so much to do with open-mindedness / uncertainty as it does for getting an accurate gauge on your skills and abilities?

    How does arrogance hamper with progress? Only if you're arrogant without substance to back up your attitude. Nobody grudges an arrogant genius... It goes with the position.

    Perhaps the two issues are being confused here. It's not so much arrogance as complacence that slows us down. After all, you can look down upon others and still see the need to better yourself...

  6. #16
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,027

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Does it have so much to do with open-mindedness / uncertainty as it does for getting an accurate gauge on your skills and abilities?
    Who's skills and abilities? One's own skills and abilities, or the skills and abilities of arrogant people?

  7. #17
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INfj
    Posts
    3,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    Who's skills and abilities? One's own skills and abilities, or the skills and abilities of arrogant people?
    I'm assuming it your own skills and abilities rather than thinking about whether you're overly arrogant or doubtful of one self. That was ygolo's question.

  8. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Does it have so much to do with open-mindedness / uncertainty as it does for getting an accurate gauge on your skills and abilities?

    How does arrogance hamper with progress? Only if you're arrogant without substance to back up your attitude. Nobody grudges an arrogant genius... It goes with the position.

    Perhaps the two issues are being confused here. It's not so much arrogance as complacence that slows us down. After all, you can look down upon others and still see the need to better yourself...
    I'm not sure how skills play a role in this. I am mainly talking about perspective.

    Also, geniuses are bregudged quite often, arrogant or not.

    B. Fuller was moments away from drowning himself. Newton had a nervous break dewn before writing the Principia, a falure as a farmer, and a mediocre student; as an adult he spent more time on Alchemy than Physics, and was taken in by the Tulip Bulb scheme, and generally dislike by many of his peers. Einstein lectured to empty rooms, and was not regarded as much od a scientist till his theories proved true. Darwin was thought by his father to be a failure at life.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    837

    Default

    I just think of my perspective as my perspective. I don't judge it. Every human has their own brain so it just doesn't make sense to assume we're all meant to believe the same things or that there is one ultimate truth about any one certain thing. I wonder a lot more than I doubt. Why take a belief personally and be all sentimental about it? We believe things and come to our own conclusions so we can navigate through life. If I have to take action, I have to trust myself and my own rationalizations because that's all I've got to work with. I'm focusing more on what the conclusions allow me to experience rather than what they mean on their own, so there's really no room for pride and doubt. It's desire and wonder.

    For example, when you get in your car to go somewhere, you don't get all paranoid and check every single part of your car to make sure it's in perfect working order. You just assume it's good enough to take you where you're going because you're smart enough to take care of your car as you go. If you find a problem, or it breaks down, then you fix it and keep going.

    But your car is just a tool, like your rational and conscious mind. It won't be perfect, but you can still use it. What's important is that it takes you where you want to go. The awesome thing, though, is that unlike a car, you can upgrade your brain for free.
    "When a resolute young fellow steps up the great bully, the world, and takes him boldly by the beard, he is often surprised to find that it comes off in his hand, and that it was only tied on to scare away the timid adventurers." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  10. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LucrativeSid View Post
    I just think of my perspective as my perspective. I don't judge it. Every human has their own brain so it just doesn't make sense to assume we're all meant to believe the same things or that there is one ultimate truth about any one certain thing. I wonder a lot more than I doubt. Why take a belief personally and be all sentimental about it? We believe things and come to our own conclusions so we can navigate through life. If I have to take action, I have to trust myself and my own rationalizations because that's all I've got to work with. I'm focusing more on what the conclusions allow me to experience rather than what they mean on their own, so there's really no room for pride and doubt. It's desire and wonder.

    For example, when you get in your car to go somewhere, you don't get all paranoid and check every single part of your car to make sure it's in perfect working order. You just assume it's good enough to take you where you're going because you're smart enough to take care of your car as you go. If you find a problem, or it breaks down, then you fix it and keep going.

    But your car is just a tool, like your rational and conscious mind. It won't be perfect, but you can still use it. What's important is that it takes you where you want to go. The awesome thing, though, is that unlike a car, you can upgrade your brain for free.
    I understand what you, and may others are getting at. It's good if you can live anxiety free that way.

    But in the example of your car, there are the original desinger who did have to worry about all sorts of stuff. It was then built on an assembly line where they had to worry about defects. Then these cars were mass produced, so that people like us don't have to worry too much about these things. But when your perspective changes, it is hard not to worry.

    I know an Air Force captain, who hates flying because he knows too much about planes.

    I like the idea of not judging my own perspective. But, sometimes, I feel obliged to hold that perspective together, despite there being a constant onslaught against it. There is often a need to justify my perspective on things, because people usually only understand a small fraction of what I am trying to relate.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

Similar Threads

  1. 100 ways to avoid buying and hoarding books
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-24-2013, 01:00 AM
  2. Brands and Personality Type? Any example?
    By curiousel in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-09-2010, 03:27 PM
  3. [ISFJ] Dealing with my partner's ISFJ ex-wife - any tips?
    By clairebbbear in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-09-2009, 06:31 PM
  4. Any Tips On The MBTI Study I'm Working On?
    By Mondo in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-02-2008, 01:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO