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  1. #31
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    I really can't stomach anyone who believes that in order to appreciate art, you have to prefer intuition. It's offensive and untrue. Anyone can appreciate art, and noticing "Monet-ness" in the world around you does not equal having a preference for intuition.
    You are absolutely right. SPs have just as much appreciation for physical beauty as any N does (or even more so). I think the example mentioned in the OP was more relating to SJ than simply S.

    After all (and I'm sorry to say this), I've definitely felt like that ESTJ before. My NF mom always gets so moved by sunsets and such, and although I'm never as rude as that ESTJ* (i.e. I usually say "Yeah, that really is beautiful", NOT "whatever"), my appreciation is not indefinite as hers. But I STILL APPRECIATE BEAUTY (contrary to popular belief about my type)! I love looking at the night sky, and I enjoy art galleries as much as an N would. It's just that... I don't love it enough to stare at that stuff for hours, you know? I want to be getting stuff done!

    *EDIT - I'm not that rude in that particular situation.
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    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  2. #32
    Member frenchkiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Every so often my ISTP husband will humor me, but my two S children usually don't.

    It is nice when I find someone who enjoys the beauty of nature just as much as I do.
    My ISTJ boyfriend is way more into nature than I am. One of his favorite things to do is sit in the backyard and watch the squirrels run around in the trees - not really my idea of a great time.
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  3. #33
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    I still would love to know where anyone would get the idea that Ns are sensitive to beauty. By definition, they're likely oblivious to it.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Here's a sample of a typical conversation between my ISTJ husband and me which took place last night after a lovely snowfall.

    "Look out the kitchen window."

    "Oh. The snow is really getting high. I guess that means I'll be running the snowblower tomorrow."

    "Yes, it is. Look. Just look at that!"

    Yeah. It's damn cold out. I think I'll go down and put a couple more logs in the stove."

    And off he goes leaving me dreamily standing at the window watching the blue and purple shadows play on the sparkling snow. Sigh.

    Can he see that? Oh yes. He has a fine eye for color, proportion and beauty in nature. But it's not the most important thing on his list of many things to do.

    I feed my spirit; he feeds the woodstove. We feed each other.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #35
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    WTH, anyone in the world can appreciate beauty, S or N. It's how they interpret it, perceive it, and the ultimate connections and relations they get that come from appreciating the beauty that might mark a difference between S and N. I think it really depends on the person and how significant they feel beauty is a part of their lives. This can apply to many S artists and appreciators of art, who can appreciate sensory things probably very deeply for their aesthetic appeal, and to N artists and appreciators of art, who can find deep meaning in a piece of work and the message or emotion the artist might be trying to convey.

  6. #36
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    Interpreting is T or F.

    S is absorbed in the physical world while the N is absorbed in internal visions (yes, those are called intuitions), each from perspectives of either the extroverted or introverted attitude.

    No interpretation is involved in either of the irrational functions -- interpretation implies rational, looking for closure in one way or another.

  7. #37
    Senior Member placebo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Interpreting is T or F.

    S is absorbed in the physical world while the N is absorbed in internal visions (yes, those are called intuitions), each from perspectives of either the extroverted or introverted attitude.

    No interpretation is involved in either of the irrational functions -- interpretation implies rational, looking for closure in one way or another.
    Well I meant, interpretation of it as a aesthetic, sensory thing, like the physical aspects of the work (S), or interpretation of it as something symbolic and internal (N). I guess I'm sloppy in the use of the word. I'm not very aware of what it implies (in this case, rational). My main point is that, both S and N types can appreciate beauty--to me, which type it is, intuitor or sensor, seems irrelevant. I don't really understand the argument that either one can't.

  8. #38
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    This whole thread points out the problem with MBTI: You can attribute the exact same thing to any function regardless of what type you are.

    Y'all should really stop thinking these things like "oh what an SP moment for me" or "oh, I'm so intuitive to be staring at this William Blake painting and getting it". That's taking it too far imo

  9. #39
    Senior Member Gauche's Avatar
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    I would say something on that problem with S vs. N you guys have had.

    IMO, sensors could perceive beauty the very same as intuitors. Maybe even better. But.. I mean perceive in cognitive way. If you look at Mona Lisa, both sensor and intuitor tell you it is beautiful. Both see that strange smile and interesting face, maybe S see it even more precisely, and it's equally beautiful for both. BUT.. what is to say, N will connect this inside his head to something, and internally, the painting suddenly takes "the meaning". For N, there's something deep and strange within the painting, and it means something for him, something that is not visible in the bare painting, but his N came here to create it. Sensors see and appreciate beauty for its own sake.

    So I'm not saying sensors are worse in appreciating beauty or what, perhaps they are better, they could have better feeling for art at all. They appreciate beauty for it's own sake.
    Intuitors on the other hand see "the meaning" in every piece of art. Maybe they even don't notice subleties in the artwork, as sensors do, but inside, the artwork unexplainably gain a deep, fatal meanig. Probably, by no means the same as author intended to convey.

  10. #40
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Ok, this makes more sense. Before you were saying that appreciating nature has nothing to do with intuition. I think that you and me, we see different things in nature and appreciate some of them. So, from your pov, it can be (almost) pure sensing, while I might have a bit different way. The thing is, you don't know what I see, and I don't know what you see.
    Are you saying that if you look outside your window and notice what's out there, you're not using your senses? How is that possible? Or are we just talking about an imaginary scene that exists only in your mind? I'd say that if you look around you and notice physical reality, you most ceratinly are using your senses to do so (Extraverted Sensing). If you then liken what you're seeing to a style of painting you've seen in the past, then you're using Introverted Sensing.

    There's nothing wrong with Intuitives using their senses. In fact, everyone uses all 8 functions in a basic sort of way all the time. For INFPs, Si is the tertiary function, which gets developed usually sometime in a person's teenage years. If you're beyond being a teenager, then chances are you're developing it, and you enjoy using it. (and yes, that also translates into the people who prefer Sensing also using their Intuition all the time too -- nobody has a monopoly on any one function.)

    What I don't understand is why people here are viewing the two Sensing functions (Se or Si) as Intuition functions, or functions that only a person who prefers Intuition has access to. Surely it stands to reason that if you prefer Sensing, then you're probably quite good at using either Se or Si.

    It seems obvious also from the responses here that noticing and appreciating beauty is not type-related. People of all types do that. And also, it seems obvious that the people who have to do all the work on a snowy or rainy day (such as driving in bad weather conditions or shovelling and stoking fires) are going to be more likely to make a few mild gripes about the weather rather than dreamily rhapsodize over its' beauty. I suspect that everyone here would probably be talking less about how magical and meaningful the snow or the fog is if they were the person having to drive in it or develop sore muscles shovelling it several times a day.

    We had a huge snowstorm last night where I live. My NF husband was the one who went outside to shovel. I haven't been outside yet, but I've made several commments about it, and he agreed with me that it's quite beautiful. My point is that everyone who has an apprciation for beauty can marvel at nature and liken what they're seeing to things they've seen and appreciated before, and it doesn't take being a certain type or temperament to have an interest in doing that.

    I didn't mean this to be such an argument -- I'm sorry for being so vehement yesterday, but physical beauty (especially in nature) is something I feel passionate about, and I am astounded by anyone who thinks that my type prefereces prevent me from appreciating it.

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