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  1. #11
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I think it has something to do with intuition. You are right that it CAN very well be sensing, but the link between the scene and the Monet painting comes very close to intuition. In this case it is impossible to say, really, because we don't know how she saw the scene.

    I have often looked at a landscape and been in a way sucked into it so that something that wasn't really that beautiful becomes beautiful. Maybe that is what it looks like when you watch something through intuition.

    I do think that Travo's example is more like an F thing.
    But intuition is about removing yourself from tangible reality and thinking of abstractions. Sensing is about noticing tangible reality, as well as recalling to memory other tangible realities (like paintings by Monet). If you're actually noticing scenery through a window rather than thinking of something totally unrelated to it, then you're using a sensing function. This is a good example of how it's impossible to do purely one or the other.

    I'm amazed at the number of people here who think they are using an intuition function when actually they are using a sensing function. Sensing does NOT equals grumbling about the weather rather than choosing to see a rainy day as beautiful. I mean, c'mon! If this is what people believe, then no wonder there's so much Sensor-bashing on this forum. You can't seriously take everything that's wonderful about having a preference for Sensing and reassign it to "Intuition" and still make sense (and not offend people who prefer Sensing and who KNOW better). It just doesn't work that way.

  2. #12
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    I think the S vs. N divide is not the great chasm many people make it out to be.

    I believe when an S type looks at something, they are more likely to see it for what it truly is. (Edit: actually "what it truly is" is so subjective.. but they tend to notice environmental details more readily and easily, which likely gives a certain clarity N's don't have) But an N type sees "what could be".

    However, this is not always the case. S types look for possibilities and N types also look for what really is there.

    Sensing = Being attuned to reality, the here and now
    Intuition = Able to see abstract possibilities, looking to the future

    The key is integrating the two: Taking abstract ideas and applying them to the real world. Or looking at the real world and seeing untapped potential.
    It's obvious that the people who think there's a great big chasm between those who prefer Sensing and those who prefer Intuition just want desperately to believe that because it makes them feel superior. And they're the ones going around diminishing what having a preference for Sensing is all about, because, again, it makes them feel superior, which is all they seemingly want to use type theory for anyway. They don't care whether or not they're accurate. Frankly, it disgusts me.

  3. #13
    Senor Membrane
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    Why are you angry? I never bashed any sensors.

    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    But intuition is about removing yourself from tangible reality and thinking of abstractions. Sensing is about noticing tangible reality, as well as recalling to memory other tangible realities (like paintings by Monet). If you're actually noticing scenery through a window rather than thinking of something totally unrelated to it, then you're using a sensing function. This is a good example of how it's impossible to do purely one or the other.
    I understood that intuition is about making connections. Not only about thinking something totally different and abstract. If I connect fog to monet, it isn't purely sensing.

  4. #14
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Why are you angry? I never bashed any sensors.



    I understood that intuition is about making connections. Not only about thinking something totally different and abstract. If I connect fog to monet, it isn't purely sensing.
    Then dang, every single person who prefers Sensing does that too. So there's no difference at all between you and me. There -- how's that? Forget Intuition -- forget Sensing -- they don't exist. You and I do both to an equal degree. We can all throw type theory away now because it's useless.

    And yes, it's deeply insulting and just plain WRONG, this whole suggestion that Sensing means only noticing depressing things and never beauty!! And yes, that does feel like bashing to me -- it totally goes against everything I live for.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    And yes, it's deeply insulting, this whole suggestion that Sensing means only noticing depressing things and never beauty!!
    Did I say that? I think I didn't. Sensing sees everything, now doesn't it..? Also the beauty.

    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    And yes, I'm very angry.
    Well, I can't say I'm sorry, since I have no idea how I am responsible for that. We both obviously use both functions, I even said that you are right that it can very well be sensing, and after that I said that I think this is most likely an F thing.

    You are barking at wrong tree, fox.

    Oh, and BTW, the "chasm" you referred to, it won't go away if you scare off the people from having a discussion about it. Sure. it is good you make your opinion clear, but if you could tone it down, maybe we could actually get some understanding out of this.

  6. #16
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Did I say that? I think I didn't. Sensing sees everything, now doesn't it..? Also the beauty.
    No, the original poster said that. And I'm saying that Sensing does actually mean equating fog with Monet paintings, since you have to use your senses to see and remember both the fog and the Monet painting. No intuition. Intuition is abstract and non-concrete.


    Well, I can't say I'm sorry, since I have no idea how I am responsible for that. We both obviously use both functions, I even said that you are right that it can very well be sensing, and after that I said that I think this is most likely an F thing.

    You are barking wrong tree, fox.

    I wouldn't put it past someone who prefers Thinking and who likes art to say the same thing. It's the sort of activity that anyone who is tuned in to noticing natural beauty and appreciating art could do. Obviously the dad in the OP was just a boring, dull, non-artistic person who has zero appreciation for beauty -- and that does NOT --repeat NOT-- equal having a preference for Sensing!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    No, the original poster said that.
    So, I am like collateral damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    And I'm saying that Sensing does actually mean equating fog with Monet paintings, since you have to use your senses to see and remember both the fog and the Monet painting. No intuition. Intuition is abstract and non-concrete.
    So, you really are saying that the process does not (and can not?) involve intuition at all, not one bit, nada? I hope someone else can confirm this, because if it is so, I need to go re-read what these functions are about.

    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    I wouldn't put it past someone who prefers Thinking and who likes art to say the same thing. It's the sort of activity that anyone who is tuned in to noticing natural beauty and appreciating art could do.
    Yeah, anyone who is tuned in. The idea with the type theory is that not everyone is equally tuned into this thing. I think there has been studies about types and different sort of art, and if I remember right, there we're many differences between the types and the appreciation of art.

  8. #18
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    Since Si has to do with memory, wouldn't seeing scenery and relating it to a painting you've seen be an example of Si?

    In contrast, I think if I were using Fi+Ne while looking at scenery, I might take in the vibe of the scenery and relate it to an emotion I've been experiencing due to a relationship and then use that association to try to come up with possible solutions in dealing with that relationship. Or something like that.

    If Sensors never made associations, then how would they be able to appreciate art at all? A painting would just be a bunch of globs of color in the shape of a house or something. It wouldn't have any significance. I don't think you need to be an N to see that significance.
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  9. #19
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchkiss View Post
    Since Si has to do with memory, wouldn't seeing scenery and relating it to a painting you've seen be an example of Si?

    In contrast, I think if I were using Fi+Ne while looking at scenery, I might take in the vibe of the scenery and relate it to an emotion I've been experiencing due to a relationship and then use that association to try to come up with possible solutions in dealing with that relationship. Or something like that.

    If Sensors never made associations, then how would they be able to appreciate art at all? A painting would just be a bunch of globs of color in the shape of a house or something. It wouldn't have any significance. I don't think you need to be an N to see that significance.

    Right, thank you, I'm not saying Sensors don't make associations. I'm saying that noticing beauty and making associations is not related to having a preference for Intuition, as the OP apparently wants to believe.

  10. #20
    soft and silky sarah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    So, I am like collateral damage?



    So, you really are saying that the process does not (and can not?) involve intuition at all, not one bit, nada? I hope someone else can confirm this, because if it is so, I need to go re-read what these functions are about.



    Yeah, anyone who is tuned in. The idea with the type theory is that not everyone is equally tuned into this thing. I think there has been studies about types and different sort of art, and if I remember right, there we're many differences between the types and the appreciation of art.

    I'm saying that it's not an indicator of preference. I'm astonished at how many people believe that doing sensory activities indicates a preference for intuition. It's ridiculous. It's as if I went around saying that my spiritual life and my ability to talk about abstract topics is proof of a preference for Sensing.

    I really can't stomach anyone who believes that in order to appreciate art, you have to prefer intuition. It's offensive and untrue. Anyone can appreciate art, and noticing "Monet-ness" in the world around you does not equal having a preference for intuition.

    In fact, I believe Monet was almost certainly an ISFP, NOT an "N" (read a biography of him if you doubt that.)

    If you really and truly don't understand what's so offensive, try empathizing with ISFPs. Then notice how much you like being told you're incapable of the very things that you most certainly CAN do and DO do.

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