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  1. #81
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    This was just to show that empathy/helpfulness and everything that comes with it can cause some serious problems for the civilization and that they are not a good choice in some situations.
    This has nothing to do with hate or lack of tolerance it has to do with the fact that people don't think straight. Since this way you are only creating more people to die in the end.
    What is quite cruel even if entire thing look like a good idea.


    From what I see in this post one thing is clear...

    You have the emotional maturity of a tree stump.

    Now before you get upset keep in mind that I simply took your own advice and witheld my "overly emotional ways" to prove a point. Without emotion there is nothing to stop people from being blatantly rude if they think it suits them.

    In fact if people had had more empathy the world would not be in the situation it is in today. After all, if you consider the banker that sold long arm loans to people who could not afford it if they had been more empathic towards the person's situation, they would not have sold them a loan they could not have afforded.

    It is the LACK of empathy that is causing the world's problems. Your "suggestion" is not only one of the most absurd statements that I have seen anyone ever make but would throw the world into chaos as there would be no restraint from people to do harm to one another. Logic does not work well in a world where people are starving. A person who is however empathic will take pity on a person who is hungry and share their food.

    After all, the logical conclusion to one is that their existance is more important to them than others. It was and is LOGIC that is flawed in this case not empathy.

    For example in a world where greed is good (after all from a physical standpoint greed is logical as it assures the survivial of a species) the most logical conclusion is to become as greedy as possible to assure your own existance as this is most important to you. The problem with this logic is that everyone else comes up with the same idea and as a result all the people become greedy. In a world with limited resources this becomes an issue as there is not enough food, and water to go around they ones who are greedy must fight for the resources.

    Empathy on the other hand is not as logical (after all who would disagree with the idea that if you share your food in a waistland that you have a far less chance at survival?) But if everyone had empathy, everyone would be compelled to share. Doctors would heal the sick out of compassion and not profit. The entire world would benfit.

    The above shows that your logic is VERY flawed indeed. Are you sure that you are an NT? I would suggest that you take Dr. Kersley's test again and answer the questions honestly this time.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by elementaltale View Post
    This was just to show that empathy/helpfulness and everything that comes with it can cause some serious problems for the civilization and that they are not a good choice in some situations.
    This has nothing to do with hate or lack of tolerance it has to do with the fact that people don't think straight. Since this way you are only creating more people to die in the end.
    What is quite cruel even if entire thing look like a good idea.


    From what I see in this post one thing is clear...

    You have the emotional maturity of a tree stump.

    Now before you get upset keep in mind that I simply took your own advice and witheld my "overly emotional ways" to prove a point. Without emotion there is nothing to stop people from being blatantly rude if they think it suits them.

    In fact if people had had more empathy the world would not be in the situation it is in today. After all, if you consider the banker that sold long arm loans to people who could not afford it if they had been more empathic towards the person's situation, they would not have sold them a loan they could not have afforded.

    It is the LACK of empathy that is causing the world's problems. Your "suggestion" is not only one of the most absurd statements that I have seen anyone ever make but would throw the world into chaos as there would be no restraint from people to do harm to one another. Logic does not work well in a world where people are starving. A person who is however empathic will take pity on a person who is hungry and share their food.

    After all, the logical conclusion to one is that their existance is more important to them than others. It was and is LOGIC that is flawed in this case not empathy.

    For example in a world where greed is good (after all from a physical standpoint greed is logical as it assures the survivial of a species) the most logical conclusion is to become as greedy as possible to assure your own existance as this is most important to you. The problem with this logic is that everyone else comes up with the same idea and as a result all the people become greedy. In a world with limited resources this becomes an issue as there is not enough food, and water to go around they ones who are greedy must fight for the resources.

    Empathy on the other hand is not as logical (after all who would disagree with the idea that if you share your food in a waistland that you have a far less chance at survival?) But if everyone had empathy, everyone would be compelled to share. Doctors would heal the sick out of compassion and not profit. The entire world would benfit.

    The above shows that your logic is VERY flawed indeed. Are you sure that you are an NT? I would suggest that you take Dr. Kersley's test again and answer the questions honestly this time.

    I completly understand why my logic looks flawed to you. It looks flawed since you presume that greed is something logical. I don't think that this is the case here. Our entire global economic system has plenty of flaws.


    One the other hand global population numbers are getting out of control what will probably end with very bad outcome. To me it is not logical that someone can be free to have 5 childern. Since no one is really trying to do something about this I say we have a deficit of logic on a global level.

    I have nothing against empathy in general it is just that it looks that emapthy could lead to problems. I think that many things you treat as logic have almost nothing to do with logic.


    If you want to talk about this I am here.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I completly understand why my logic looks flawed to you. It looks flawed since you presume that greed is something logical. I don't think that this is the case here. Our entire global economic system has plenty of flaws.


    One the other hand global population numbers are getting out of control what will probably end with very bad outcome. To me it is not logical that someone can be free to have 5 childern. Since no one is really trying to do something about this I say we have a deficit of logic on a global level.

    I have nothing against empathy in general it is just that it looks that emapthy could lead to problems. I think that many things you treat as logic have almost nothing to do with logic.


    If you want to talk about this I am here.
    First of all, you understand that my insults were to prove the point that I stated about. I personally have nothing against you.

    That being said, you are correct empathy is not logical nor could it ever be. Logic can never be used to define emotional states as they do not have a consistent pattern and logic is about consistency. Granted you can try to predict how a person will react emotionally but there will never be absolute assurance that this is the case.

    However in the case of greed, I would have to respectfully disagree. After all does not naturalism teach us that the strong survive over the weak? It is the necessity of taking that assures a species continued existence does it not? Any lack of sharing one's resources could be termed greed. While it is true that species will share with others of their own, ultimately they are being greedy as they are considering only what is associated with them. Perpetuation of a species is not about empathy it is about survival.

    In a naturalist world the survival of one is the most important thing that one could achieve. Therefore if greed serves that purpose then greed not only becomes logical it becomes warranted.

    I however do not ascribe to the idea of a naturalist only world as I do believe there is a God. As such I accept that we are made in his image and as such are required to show empathy and have an inclination to do so.

  4. #84
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    We need empathy in this world, but there is a thing as to much empathy. Lack of empathy hurts those around us, but generally benefits those directly involved. Empathy is what makes us think about how what we do affects others. If there was no empathy in the world we would all be so paranoid and stressed that someone IS gonna screw us over. Its not if, its when someone is gonna try and pull one over on us. Lets talk about the ARM loans. There are many sides to this. You have the honest loan people that didnt understand the implications, they did there job and told the buyer what they could borrow. The borrower assumed this is what they can afford. This wasnt as big an issue before because those with higher credit scores know how to manage there money, but those with lower credit scores dont know how to properly manage there money so to them if someone wanted to loan them the money they should be able to afford it. You also have those people that feel empathetic and ignore the fact that the borrow cant afford it, but you want to help them and want them to TRUST that they can do it. Then you have the people who should be punished. These are the people who forged, lied, pushed people to lie about income, did undocumented income loans. Now what if the loan person was very empathetic and the borrow really wanted it, I can honestly see this loan person thinking they were actually helping. Empathy with lack of thought can cause as much problems as someone who just thinks about themselves and lacks empathy.

    Its a double edged sword that we need to find a balance. When we are born we are given strengths and for some it is to not have empathy, these are the people that advance society, technology, etc. As these people age they will become more empathetic, they will balance out. I think this is when we start picking up our less dominant functions those who are strong Ti start learning how to use there Fe. Some wont and these are the people that we need to worry about. We teach about technology in school, and how to make a living, but they dont teach us how to learn or how to improve ourselves. Some need to learn to be more empathetic and some less empathetic.
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #85
    Senior Member cogdecree's Avatar
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    Responding to the OP:

    AO, look at it this way, we are social creatures, and have achieved much compared to other animals because we are more social, as being such we can work together in better unison to create bigger and better things. Biologically we are also design to display emotions, if you look at our eyes, you'll see that their is more white shown than other animals, (combined with all our facial movements) this helps display our emotions to get messages across and to inspire caring that transcends words.

    Caring or sympathy is important because it allows acceptance of mistakes (something that doesn't take place in the animal kingdom) why this is important is our need to function as a unit.

  6. #86
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    AO, this is my opinion (for what it is worth):
    We really don't need these emotions. Emotions just helped us get this far down the evolutionary chain. Certain emotions could possibly be vestiges that are awaiting impending elimination. Perhaps somewhere down the road some of these vestigial emotions can be put to good use.

    For example:
    White moths and black moths. Color difference. In a seriously polluted environment, the black moths can now camouflage against the trees and prevail while the white moths die because they lack the same ability to elude the vision of their predators.

    Taking the last statement into consideration:
    What if our emotions work the same way?

    So to conclude, my opinion is that some of our emotions possibly got us this far in time. Emotions are an evolutionary accident and their relevance and importance vary in degree as we progress. It's all relative and circumstantial if you think about it.

    Sorry for the rant. Nice thread by the way.

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