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  1. #21
    Member Nat's Avatar
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    One of my greatest personal strengths is my emotional stability which is linked with my strong T. What allows me to live without stress and depression while am still capable of humor and functioning normal. In many ways even better then other people.
    (by their standards).


    I really don't think that emotional stability has anything to do with being a strong T. In fact, I think T's who dismiss emotions as being irrelevant or something to subdue are more likely to be depressed than someone more in touch with their emotions - be it positive emotions or negative.

  2. #22
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post


    I really don't think that emotional stability has anything to do with being a strong T. In fact, I think T's who dismiss emotions as being irrelevant or to something subdue are more likely to be depressed than someone more in touch with their emotions - be it positive emotions or negative.
    +1
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  3. #23
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I want to congratulate people they have just confirmed what I was saying.

    Everybody took this as an anti emotions post even it says that it is not.

    Lets do the math I have said that most emotional people need to be 20% T.
    Because we have 200 % on a scale (from 100%F to 100%T) what means that entire scale has to be divided with 2 to get 100% and 50% will be the T/F border. In such a scale 20%T would be 60% T and 40% F what is 3:2.
    I would hardly call that a jihad against emotions.

    Not to mention that I never said where balance in those percentages would be. Maybe I have said 20%T but I could have said that majority could be between 20%-50%T and people above 50%T should be rare. For some reason nobody noticed this hole.

    I have said that majority should not be exactly like me but people presumed that I think that everyone should be similar me. .




    Also I have said that I think that people can't change that much as a group and jet I received a question that asks: How this would be created/enforced.?

    Also NTs especially introverted ones are attacked that they are cold, aloof and too abstract then someone attacks that this would be harmful for individualism

    Another thing is that high T would be uncreative and somewhat closed minded is not true at all.. Take a look at what I am posting, is it that truly that much uncreative? I ask this question seriously..

    Also why someone did not attacked me in Africa?
    I have ideas but I want to hear opinion of other people about why they didn't do it.


    The argument that strong T does not have an effect one emotional stability is questionable. That is because T is not about good mood or bad mood. T is about thinking, analyzing and planning. You dont get depressed just if you have this kind of a mind.


    In a world that is much more T there would be much more stability what would mean that the ratio of good : bad emotions would be better for good emotions since people would be less stressed since organization would be better and more logical.
    People commit suicide exactly because they get overwhelmed by social mechanisms that are based on emotion. Not rational analysis of our global situation.
    That wants productivity and there is no base for that level productivity. The main reason why we are bombarded by advertisement is exactly because some people are not rational enough to resist it and by doing this they are just fueling collective sorrow.
    I am not saying that Ts are immune to this but they have extra protection against this kind
    I would dare to say abuse.
    In a T world this would not be possible nearly as much as it is in this one and there would still be enough emotion to create a nice place to live.

    Another thing is that people don't critical mathematical/scientific enough what can be seen in politics. The entire modern elections are based on the principle of manipulating feelings of people. The numbers, facts, projections and plans are something that is not so interesting.

    But if you want argument that is clearly abot what F can do I will give you one.


    The idea of armed society in the USA is one good example of emotional decision making. The main argument is it makes us happy.
    And then they defend them self that they have regulation and laws about it but that is not an issue. The thing is that you can't control all those weapons.
    Believe me you would sleep much easier if you know that people in your neighborhood are not armed since this is accident waiting to happen.


    I will stop for now since this is getting too long.

  4. #24
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Let the Fs live, they may cry in public and make me very uncomfortable by doing so if you decide otherwise

    You can't replace F with T anymore than you can replace T with F. I'm a nice ENTP, by general consensus of those who barely know me IRL, but there's a definite difference between me and the ENFPs I know. They're better at the whole NF, interpreting emotions and motives of others thing than I am... that and they are even better than me at reading people, which is creepy

    I can't adapt to be all the things that an ENFP is, and they can't quite adapt to be what I am... they must exist so that they can fill thier function dammit!

    I do wish they'd stop crying in public though...
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #25
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    That was so beautiful!
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    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  6. #26
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    As with most things, i think a healthy balance between the two is ideal. Obviously I am a little biased towards the T perspective but can also logically see the need for F based values in society. At least as society exists today. Sure if we were to grow to a completely logically based existence things may go ok for awhile for some. I don't know that it would be too pleasant of an existence though. So much of what is enjoyable in life could be described as deriving from an f-based ideal.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Mama Caveman to Daddy Caveman:

    You know that thing that turned up out my bottom one day? It makes noise, smells bad and is eating up all the food. Logically, Dear, what do you think we should do with it?
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  8. #28
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    The argument that strong T does not have an effect one emotional stability is questionable. That is because T is not about good mood or bad mood. T is about thinking, analyzing and planning. You dont get depressed just if you have this kind of a mind.
    This seems to be a nonsequitur. You can easily get depressed by always thinking, analyzing and planning. There is nothing inherently non-depressive about these activities. They're generally not unpleasant, but an excessive use of them can leave you with a feeling of something missing.

    In a world that is much more T there would be much more stability what would mean that the ratio of good : bad emotions would be better for good emotions since people would be less stressed since organization would be better and more logical.
    Well, you're using a linear approximation of the good and the bad emotions; I think that a baseline level of emotionality is, for many people, a pre-requisite for the presence of good emotions, so they may decrease nonlinearly (in this case, I think more than proportionally) with the general decrease in emotionality. What about bad emotions? Right now, I can't think about a different model for them. So, let's just suppose that they decrease nonlinearly too. At best, it seems that the ratio would remain approximately stable. Human psychology is a rather ancient mechanism, and its homeostatic properties should not be undervalued, imho.

    That wants productivity and there is no base for that level productivity. The main reason why we are bombarded by advertisement is exactly because some people are not rational enough to resist it and by doing this they are just fueling collective sorrow.
    How does collective sorrow follow from buying things that are advertised, sorry?

    Another thing is that people don't critical mathematical/scientific enough what can be seen in politics. The entire modern elections are based on the principle of manipulating feelings of people. The numbers, facts, projections and plans are something that is not so interesting.
    That's not exactly true. I don't know if you have studied election theory; I have, although not deeply, and the result of almost all the models is that what drives electors towards one choice or the other is rational interest, meaning what the given party will do for them. This is actually contrary to what feeling would suggest, since a more empathetic perspective would call for a consideration of other people's well-being too.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  9. #29
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    This seems to be a nonsequitur. You can easily get depressed by always thinking, analyzing and planning. There is nothing inherently non-depressive about these activities. They're generally not unpleasant, but an excessive use of them can leave you with a feeling of something missing.
    I am talking from experiance. My T is extreme and it appears that I am more emotinally stabile then people around me.
    The fact that this works for me is plobably because I am extreme introvert and the reason why you have problem with this concept is because you are E.

    Well, you're using a linear approximation of the good and the bad emotions; I think that a baseline level of emotionality is, for many people, a pre-requisite for the presence of good emotions, so they may decrease nonlinearly (in this case, I think more than proportionally) with the general decrease in emotionality. What about bad emotions? Right now, I can't think about a different model for them. So, let's just suppose that they decrease nonlinearly too. At best, it seems that the ratio would remain approximately stable. Human psychology is a rather ancient mechanism, and its homeostatic properties should not be undervalued, imho.
    I see your point but I disagree.
    What I am saying is that more T world probably be more organised and rational. What means that the social system would be like this as well.
    Since goals would be more realistic in many cases there should be much less stress and that would change ratio of good and bad emotions.
    Today there is so much stress and bad feelings exactly because goals are bases on wishes.

    How does collective sorrow follow from buying things that are advertised, sorry?
    Maybe it is cultural thing, but did you ever encounter people who desperately want something what they can have?
    Since they want it so badly they are willing to take chances to get it even if offer is a bad one. Why do you think someone is willing to become a drug lord?
    To get things he could not afford when he was a kid.


    That's not exactly true. I don't know if you have studied election theory; I have, although not deeply, and the result of almost all the models is that what drives electors towards one choice or the other is rational interest, meaning what the given party will do for them. This is actually contrary to what feeling would suggest, since a more empathetic perspective would call for a consideration of other people's well-being too.
    I stand by my post since it is highly questionable what is rational and what is emotional in this case. Why all those people have to place so much imperative on their interests? Because someone made them believe that this are their interests.

    What I am tring to say it that the rules of a T world would be quite different in the core. Since huge part of things that are promoted on political scene (mainstream and alternative) are quite irrational and it would be harder to sell them.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Pancreas's Avatar
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    One of the main base points of your arguments seems to be that a world that was less emotional would have fewer problems. This would be true if most problems were caused by emotions running rampant. IF that were the case, then yes, what youre purporting would have some merit. However, I dont think thats the case.

    Im not saying that problems must therefore must be caused by logic/thinking. Its just that in the real world, things are usually quite complicated. I believe most problems would be caused by a roughly equal combination of both thinking and feeling.

    Then theres this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I am talking from experiance. My T is extreme and it appears that I am more emotinally stabile then people around me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Not to mention that I never said where balance in those percentages would be. Maybe I have said 20%T but I could have said that majority could be between 20%-50%T and people above 50%T should be rare. For some reason nobody noticed this hole.

    I have said that majority should not be exactly like me but people presumed that I think that everyone should be similar me. .
    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    The argument that strong T does not have an effect one emotional stability is questionable. That is because T is not about good mood or bad mood. T is about thinking, analyzing and planning. You dont get depressed just if you have this kind of a mind.
    If everyone was highly T, like you as you have said, then maybe people would be more emotionally stable. But a preference for thinking causes just as many problems as an equally strong preference for feeling does. It just causes different problems. So you have emotional stability. But other issues instead.

    If most had a slight preference for thinking, then you would have maybe a marginal improvement, if any, in emotional stability overall.

    Also:

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Also NTs especially introverted ones are attacked that they are cold, aloof and too abstract then someone attacks that this would be harmful for individualism
    I didnt attack you. I merely pointed out that eliminating emotion may have repercussions.

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