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  1. #11
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft
    I suppose, then, what I don't understand is why extraverts seem to be afraid of their own psychological workings.
    I think your perception is off. I am not afraid of my psychological workings in the least. Quite the contrary really, I find them fascinating. My focus is on the external world. If you stop and ask me why I said/looked a certain way I may not have an answer-though likely I do. It would depend on YOUR body language/tone/implication as to whether or not I would get annoyed. This is not the same as fear. I am much like Digest in that I don't have to tell anyone I think they are stupid. I am exceptionally expressive and "the look" will usually suffice in getting my message across. Now if you are asking an extravert to 'introvert on command' to communicate then you are asking too much. This also is not the same as fear. Can you "extravert on command"? I could take an EN type and say "We are going to network this entire room and find out ________". (I have done similar with ESFX's too btw.) An extravert would know how to do this with little explanation on how to proceed. Could you do the same? This may not be the best example really just giving you a context on what I am talking about.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  2. #12
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    My mind fires off so fast that I really do have to stop and think about why I just did what I did. Even when I go to respond to a thread on this forum, I have to press rewind in my head and get back to those first thoughts because my brain has moved on to other thoughts. IRL this comes out verbally because it is more effective for me to get those really fast thoughts out than through written communication. This also leads to the inevitable foot in mouth statements I make because I didn't think before I spoke.

    As for the intonations of voice and what not, I'm quick to show positive emotions and certain negative ones. I try to control the negative ones but they probably leak out anyway. I wave my hands around a lot when I speak, which when I'm conscious of it I try to keep them folded or in my pockets. Phraseology: I like hyperbole to make a completely unsubtle, in-your-face point or because it gets a laugh out of people. I like to juxtapose completely ridiculous words together for laughs also. This may or may not be conscious, I don't know.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  3. #13
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    To elaborate, in response to these, er, responses:

    What Liquid and digesthisickness said makes sense; extraverts are focused on what's going on around them, hence mental energy is shifted away from the psychological causes of their facial expressions, etc.

    What I've noticed is that when you ask an ENXX why they do these things, they become uncomfortable, as though you just asked them, "Hey, what's in the one door that's always locked, you know the one the key to which you always carry around and we're not supposed to talk about?" ESXXs just get pissed and give you some variant of the "Fuck you, honky!" response.

    I suppose, then, what I don't understand is why extraverts seem to be afraid of their own psychological workings.
    Most extraverts are not afriad of their own psychological workings, just like most introverts are not afraid to leave their own house. :rolli: But when I try to analyse and reflect about myself I tend to do it alone.

    If I am talking to someone and they want to ask about a raised eyebrow or voice inflection though it's pretty awkward for several reasons: 1. I'm not realizing that I do it until you point it out. 2. I'm confused about what you are talking about. 3. Depending on the situation I may get annoyed that you are pointing out such a trivial detail. 4. A lot of times INTJ's cannot verbalize what they mean very clearly (at least not without multiple tries).

    So depending on the situation an extravert might be self conscious, confused and thinking you are "intellectually challenged" all at the same time. And that is why you get such a negative response.
    :eek: :confused: :yim_phbbbbt:
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  4. #14
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU View Post
    Can you "extravert on command"? I could take an EN type and say "We are going to network this entire room and find out ________". (I have done similar with ESFX's too btw.) An extravert would know how to do this with little explanation on how to proceed. Could you do the same?
    I can be the charmingest motherfucker you ever met - if I consider it worth my while.

    And now I will ramble.

    I have an ENTP friend who believes that the "moral" of Apocalypse Now is that it's dangerous to delve too far into one's own psyche; i.e., to introvert "too much".

    Actually, in retrospect, I shouldn't have limited the scope of my query to socializing alone. It's been my observation that Extraverts tend not to like to be asked why they do things. ENXXs, depending upon their level of development, tend to be more open to considering it, but ESXXs immediately assume you're attacking them and become defensive.

    It's tiring, having to maneuver around all of this arbitrary social BS just to collect my data.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

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  5. #15
    Senior Member Lookin4theBestNU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft
    Actually, in retrospect, I shouldn't have limited the scope of my query to socializing alone. It's been my observation that Extraverts tend not to like to be asked why they do things. ENXXs, depending upon their level of development, tend to be more open to considering it, but ESXXs immediately assume you're attacking them and become defensive.

    It's tiring, having to maneuver around all of this arbitrary social BS just to collect my data.
    I probably shouldn't have gave the example I did as I didn't want to focus on the social alone either. The point I was trying to make is that we are not afraid to look at ourselves. I am an NF and self awareness is a constant focus. I got the impression (which could be wrong-please tell me if it is) from the OP that you wanted an introverted answer from an extrovert when you asked it. It sounds like it again here too. I wouldn't have a hard time explaining why I looked a certain way or said something the moment you asked-depending on the way you asked of course. I would say this is why an ESXX would assume you were attacking. It is tiring even to extraverts to maneuver through the social BS. I have to walk on eggshells to talk to certain people instead of just coming out with what I want to know directly. I would be quite curious to what you were getting at when you asked me and be ready for a great discussion. On other subjects however I couldn't give you an 'introverted answer' without time. I may not be able to do it even then!

    I can be the charmingest motherfucker you ever met - if I consider it worth my while.
    You are the second INTX I have seen say this recently. I would love to see this in action for my own information gathering purposes.
    "At points of clarity, I realize that my life on earth is meaningless, and that I am merely a pawn in a bigger game. A game I cannot possibly understand or have control of. Thankfully, before depression sets in, I drift back into my cloudy, bewildered daily routine." **Joel Patrick Warneke**

  6. #16
    Senior Member girlnamedbless's Avatar
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    I take it as a form of criticism. Any question that starts with "Why do you always..." annoys me.
    I bet they'll put something in the air tonight, just to light your face.

  7. #17
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlnamedbless View Post
    I take it as a form of criticism. Any question that starts with "Why do you always..." annoys me.
    Have you ever reflected upon why it annoys you? (Particularly now that you've used this board and are presumably aware that NTs ask such questions of genuine curiosity.)
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

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  8. #18
    Senior Member girlnamedbless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Have you ever reflected upon why it annoys you? (Particularly now that you've used this board and are presumably aware that NTs ask such questions of genuine curiosity.)
    It annoys me because I take it as a personal attack, whether it was meant to be or not.
    I bet they'll put something in the air tonight, just to light your face.

  9. #19
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    That you take it as a personal attack is evident in that it annoys you. Saying:

    Quote Originally Posted by girlnamedbless View Post
    It annoys me because I take it as a personal attack...
    ...is akin to saying "I don't like pain because it hurts." The question is, why do you take it as a personal attack? For a certain breed of human being, asking questions is our sincerest form of flattery.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  10. #20
    Senior Member girlnamedbless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    That you take it as a personal attack is evident in that it annoys you. Saying:

    ...is akin to saying "I don't like pain because it hurts." The question is, why do you take it as a personal attack? For a certain breed of human being, asking questions is our sincerest form of flattery.
    First and foremost, there's really no need for someone to ask me why I'm doing something a certain way. I take it as criticism because I see it as a form of disapproval. I feel kind of like an outcast. When someone questions how or why I did something the way I did, I automatically think I'm doing something wrong, and I don't like feeling that. Half of the time I don't realize I did something "wrong" so I feel embarrassed because of it.
    It also annoys me with things that are trivial.. Questions like "Why do you always check if your locker is locked after you close it?" (yes, I've been asked this before) are the worst. "Why do you write on your binder/why do like those shoes/why why why." Well my question is, why does it matter?
    On a final note it annoys me when someone asks about something I really can't change. Something like "Why do you read with your head tilted?" will definitely annoy me because I can't change it.
    Any better?
    Last edited by Bellflower; 07-26-2007 at 09:18 AM. Reason: closing up quote space...
    I bet they'll put something in the air tonight, just to light your face.

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