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Thread: Masks

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The Japanese have two exquisite words for this - "tatemae", and "hon'ne".

    The Japanese understand this so well because they wear such refined social masks.

    But understanding social masks so well they naturally understand the opposite - one's true feelings.

    Yes, "tatemae", is your social mask and, "hon'ne", is your true feelings.

    But ask Wolfy to give us a deeper and more accurate understanding of, "hon'ne", and "tatemae".

    It's wonderful, isn't it, to discover this concept in another language and another culture.
    This I've found very true.
    It's quite liberating when the mechanics of social conventions are exposed.

    I have to think how to explain "hon'ne", and "tatemae".

    In Japan everybody knows the rules so you can wear your mask and it will be plain as day what your true feelings are.

    Let me think...

  2. #32
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    All introverts have to wear a mask when they are interacting, don't they?
    I can't remember which typology book it is that uses the analogy of the general in the tent (Dom introverted function) and the lieutenant in charge of communications (auxiliary extroverted function).
    With introverts, you never get to see the general, only his deputy.
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    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #33
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    Wolfie's Japanese categories remind me of this:

    "The Moon Moth"

    My favorite story about masks - read it versus this summary, if you can. Unfortunately, I couldn't find an online version. If you are too impatient to find and read the wonderful award winning story itself, here is the summary....
    Jack Vance's _The Moon Moth_ - A Summary

    I am also a mask collector, with most being made long ago by certain African tribes.
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  4. #34
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'm terrified of masks- the idea that I can't read the facial expressions of the human behind the mask really unsettles me. I am somewhat saddened by this since I spend less time than I'd like in the African wing of the art museum because, even though I'll be staring in awe at some bead work on a dress I'll notice the vacant eyes of a mask staring out at me from the walls above

    To the OP- I've merely learned to reflect what people want to see from me by now in order to get through life the most easily. I'll be anyone I need to be in order to get my way and not get punished for things When left to my own devices and while hanging out with someone who doesn't expect me to be anything else I'm ENTP- elsewhere I could be anything.
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #35
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    Trivia re: the "Who's On Line" feature - I can't remember whether it is here, or at INTPc, but I notice that at almost all times there is someone ( usually listed as "guest" ) reading a thread called something like "Type Most Likely To Be a Chameleon". I always wonder if it is usually a new person each time, or if it is...that same person....very fascinated.
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  6. #36
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    ^ better than my paranoia that it's really my boss lurking as a guest and reading what I say
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #37
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kora View Post
    I have a few, the one I use the most is a very aggressive and directive one (ENTJ?) when I feel threatened or stressed.
    Ditto, though I can't say for sure that it's only stress or a threat that brings it on. I know I get like this when I think people are wasting my time (generally) or if people I care about need to have something done quickly and efficiently.

    Sometimes, I think I've lost the real 'me' under all of them.
    I hear you (*thinks of her infp days*).
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  8. #38
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    All introverts have to wear a mask when they are interacting, don't they?
    I think I understand what you are saying but I'd frame it more in the terms of the emotional armor I was talking about. A mask, to me, implies something I'm really not. One of those handy social conventions adopted for convenience and facilitating ease in getting whatever the job is, done. But the true values need to shine through or the person lacks authenticity. Phony. Makes us feel creepy around them.

    I have "tricks" I can use to protect my feelings when I'm in a situation which seems threatening to them. My emotional armor. Eight feet thick - heh. Call it detachment. But there is no mask on my persona. I am still me. Just using different tedchniques for interacting.

    nolla, you'd like my Big Bad Biker Babe mask. I take that out for fun sometimes. That's all it is - a game to amuse myself. Does it play out in my actions? Probably in a bit more of a swagger and daring-do. Little playful engine revving. But my values? Still set little folks on the bike and let them honk the horn. Don't want to get lost in the dream.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  9. #39
    Senior Member Kora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    Ditto, though I can't say for sure that it's only stress or a threat that brings it on. I know I get like this when I think people are wasting my time (generally) or if people I care about need to have something done quickly and efficiently.
    Maybe it's an INTP thing. ENTJ is the shadow of INTP, after all.
    But it's also way effective because nobody expects that behaviour from us.

    Quote Originally Posted by InaF3157 View Post
    I hear you (*thinks of her infp days*).
    So it's possible to overcome it, huh...
    5w4 - Idiosyncratic/Leisurely/Dramatic
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  10. #40
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kora View Post
    Maybe it's an INTP thing. ENTJ is the shadow of INTP, after all.
    Interesting. I hadn't come at it from that angle . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Kora View Post
    But it's also way effective because nobody expects that behaviour from us.
    Um, depending on how well / the context in which they know me, some people may expect the ENTJ more than the INTP. But my I and P are more i and p, if you get my drift, so perhaps it's a bit different from your experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kora View Post
    So it's possible to overcome it, huh...
    Maybe. I just see where it takes me until boredom or the urge to snap out of it points another way.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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