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  1. #41
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Sometimes I try to imagine how I would feel about someone else with my shortcoming or failing. If I find myself more able to tolerate it in someone else, then it helps to turn it back towards myself viewing from the outside. There are some things I have felt shame about where that approach helped. One question worth exploring as well is whether the shame is a nebulous, generalized feeling, or attached to something specific. The strategies to overcome it may have commonalities, but also distinctions. The specific shame lends itself more towards overcoming that limitation and the more generalized the shame, the more it can't go away without self acceptance? In both cases letting go of a sense of perfectionism or impossible ideals is necessary.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  2. #42
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I think shame is part of the reason I can't get perspective and reign in certain parts of my personality that I find difficult (social anxiety and isolation), and I wanted to get some ideas about how people tackle shame, or rather, work with it.
    So if you didn't feel shameful, are you expecting that you would remain socially isolated, or would not?

  3. #43
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    what about social anxiety makes you feel ashamed?
    Is it the way that you act around people? the general stigma of being socially anxious? the feeling that you get in social situations, or afterwards? A mixture of factors? Its kind of a broad category.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    You are quite right.
    The book I recommended earlier in the thread corroborates your statement.
    Had a thought when I awoke. Truly a banner week here. Heh.

    I believe I confused you with Ivy when I mentioned your competency on shame.

    If so, you know the rest. . .
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #45
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Love destroys shame like sunshine destroys shadows. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Shame is an illusion. The only thing that matters is today and then the todays after that.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  6. #46
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    I loaned out Facing Shame a couple of weeks ago, but here are some of my notes from the first 20 pages:
    I'm not sure how many of these are exact quotes, but I put them in quotes just in case.

    "taking on responsibility for compulsive behavior provides a way to face the shame directly"

    "No significant growth or learning can take place until secret behaviors are confessed and dealt with: obsessive. compulsive, abusive, or phobic."

    "Shame is an absence of self-affirmation."

    "Shame de-humanizes."

  7. #47
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Good stuff, Mom.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  8. #48
    Senior Member Hirsch63's Avatar
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    Shame can be a useful tool for self-help....Though sometimes so powerful in it's appearance that it is difficult to face down and examine. If something this distracting appears in front of you on life's path like an unexpected roadblock on the high-way where others sail by and you are forced to detour....

    We have a couple of options? Stop. Get out of our auto and ask the autority figuring waving us off towards the detour "why? What happened up there? why can't I get through?"

    ...or just take the detour and ignore curiosity at our situation. It is easier to just go along and ignore the difficulties that this looming distraction would impose...

    I have found my shame to be linked to expectations that I had of myself and how I am percieved in the world as living up to them. I am wrestling with this every day...I sense that there must be a resolution available and usually that comes down to my perception or state of mind...So, it is all an illusion? Okay then, now what? Why can't I disabuse my self of the notion? Where and how deep do the tentacles of this run into my being? What are they wrapped around? Is this something like what you feel Edahn?
    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings...Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you a king

  9. #49
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Yes. Good stuff.

    Your second point is especially useful, Mom. In that sense, Edahn, you are on the path of healing by admitting that you have a sense of shame.

    Social Anxiety Disorder is a cause for shame in a society which denigrates people with emotional disorders. Unjustly so, of course, but very difficult to avoid.

    My hunch is that the disorder is not the root cause of the shame. Shame tends to become generalized with maturing and attaches itself to anything about ourselves which troubles us.

    But it is not necessary to discover the roots of one's shame in order to deal with it. It's somewhat of a red herring to think that discovering the cause of an emotional disorder is the goal. Although in many physical ailments that is a must for prevention cure/maintenance.

    A saying I like is, "When the barn's on fire you don't need to go out and find the arsonist. You work on putting it out."

    Discovering the causes of our shame aids in the healing process but it isn't crucial for dealing with shame.

    So, I'm thinking:

    1. Recognize and acknowledge it.

    2. Tell someone else about it. Watching one's step with this one. Picking someone who isn't sensitive to shame may result in reactions which can trigger additional shame.

    3. Familiarize yourself with the symptoms and methods for counteracting them.

    4. Find a group of companions who understand and support your efforts. This can be done without formal action on your part, but an actual group working on shame will speed the process.

    5. Practice, practice, practice.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  10. #50
    Senior Member Hirsch63's Avatar
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    Boy have I been on the wrong track, then. I have an instatiable need to understand why this is happening in order to devise a startegy to manage it. If by red herring you mean it relieves one of directly confronting the problem, I can see how that would be possible and even likely in some situations.

    ...A saying I like is, "When the barn's on fire you don't need to go out and find the arsonist. You work on putting it out."

    Shame is a chronic experience so I find this analogy a bit off. I think of it more as termites undermining the structure of my self or a regular roadblock on the way to work....not an all engulfing blaze that springs up violently. Perhaps there is a difference in how we experience it? I still feel that shame is an opportunity, a tool with which we can understand a great deal more about our true selves if we can use the experience wisely. I take your comments seriously regsrding the red herring aspect though...it would be easy to slip into an avoidance of purposeful self evaluation.
    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings...Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you a king

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