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View Poll Results: Do you enjoy leadership?

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  • Yes; and I covet it.

    11 14.47%
  • Yes; however, I will serve wherever I am needed.

    20 26.32%
  • No; but occasionally someone needs to step forward.

    40 52.63%
  • No; and if you ask me to lead, I will decline.

    5 6.58%
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Thread: Leadership

  1. #41
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6sticks View Post
    If someone asks you to lead and you obey... who's the real leader?
    No... that doesn't follow logically. If I'm working under a boss, and that boss asks me to lead the other employees in a project, giving me autonomy and total discretion, then I'm the 'real' leader of the people I'm leading, even whilst I'm 'obeying' my boss. Moreover, I'm only doing any of it so I can get my paycheque, so essentially I'm serving my own ends.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  2. #42
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Hahah I was waiting for the Ti response. That would be a good way to test types for your boss. Have someone present a statement that seems semi-plausible and logical and see how much effort he takes into giving clear descriptions of why it isn't so. I personally would love to have a leader like that as well as workers like that. Unfortunately that isn't so and it's actually why I hate to resort to Te style tactics to fill in some of those blanks for people, and also maintain and control them.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  3. #43
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    The intresting thing is, it is more a N response. Because it sees the relation and the cause the serving is done for.

    Strictly seen from an S point, you are not your own boss. You are doing the bidding of another one.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #44
    Senior Member Nighthawk's Avatar
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    I used to strive for leadership positions when I was younger and following the way of the SJ/SP. It was hammered into me at a young age, and vigourously reinforced at the military school I attended. I spent my late teens and all my 20's in various leadership positions in the military ... commanding from 4 to 160 men in various combat units. (Yes, they were all male units). I exercised leadership because I was in the position to do so and it was expected of me. I did fairly well at it, but hated dealing with all the messy people problems. Plus, I delegated so much of the work, that I never felt I was accomplishing anything concrete myself.

    I left the military at age 30 and chose a completely different route ... software engineering. Now I was more content to apply constructive solutions and actually create things with my mind. I found myself veering away from leadership roles because I found them to be distasteful. I also veered away from being a follower too however, which I also found to be distasteful. As stated in an INTP profile I read somewhere ... as INTPs grow older, they have less and less desire to direct the activities of others. I've found this to be very true for me. Dealing with messy people problems just detracts from my desire to create things.

    People still try to push me into leaderhip positions, especially my SJ wife or managers who see the leadership experience on my resume. I've resisted it for the most part, especially when there is no increase in pay involved or only a slight increase. I'm not hung up on titles at all and care very little for a director or manager title. I still have misgivings about all the dynamics however, as I was trained early on to be a leader and go for the positions. Part of me still feels as though I should strive for it, despite the fact that it is contrary to my personality. Particularly in my field, which is made for younger people, and in which the older ones often gravitate towards management. I guess time will tell what eventually transpires.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    I think you actually hit on a very good point entropie. In terms of delegation, maintenance and controlling it is important to sort of step outside your natural way of doing things and transform your message to the personalities you are leading.

    I think from my perspective I find it difficult to use Te to parse not only the information I intend to communicate, but also to provide some control measures. I think I respect my own Ne too much to the point where I fail to see the need to reign it in when leading others. I think I'm much more comfortable with a more consultant orientation.

    I think one of the biggest things I'm interested is in how some of the different types like to receive communication, controlling processes and measures, Information and just generally some of the things they like and appreciate while being led. I think it is a little easier to state your strengths and what you would prefer from the leadership side but much harder to get a grasp of what is necessary and beneficial from the subordinate side. It is even more difficult to transform your style to accommodate some of the people you are leading.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  6. #46
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    I think you actually hit on a very good point entropie. In terms of delegation, maintenance and controlling it is important to sort of step outside your natural way of doing things and transform your message to the personalities you are leading.

    I think from my perspective I find it difficult to use Te to parse not only the information I intend to communicate, but also to provide some control measures. I think I respect my own Ne too much to the point where I fail to see the need to reign it in when leading others. I think I'm much more comfortable with a more consultant orientation.

    I think one of the biggest things I'm interested is in how some of the different types like to receive communication, controlling processes and measures, Information and just generally some of the things they like and appreciate while being led. I think it is a little easier to state your strengths and what you would prefer from the leadership side but much harder to get a grasp of what is necessary and beneficial from the subordinate side. It is even more difficult to transform your style to accommodate some of the people you are leading.
    That's true. The most bitter experience I've made is to constantly think, if everyone is feeling alright with your decisions and if you do not treat someone unfair. So this would be more a delegation issue.

    It is hard to keep a good balance between being a friend on the one hand and a strong leader on the other side.

    I think this would make me someone, whose experience or visions can be followed, through inspiring people. But I could never try to rule over people or mildly said, lead them with a leading hand in times of need.

    I guess in military, I would have been a good sniper. Working alone with a vision to implement
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #47
    Senior Member Negative_'s Avatar
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    Not particularly. Sometimes I'll take charge if nobody else will and I feel competent in that situation, but for the most part I'd rather influence the decisions rather than actually make them and have all that responsibility.

    Behind the Scenes style.
    .

    MASTER OF APATHY AND PURPLE SIGNATURES

  8. #48
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    All my friends are P, so if there's a group thing going down, I tend to be the organizer. It feels funny.

  9. #49
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    I enjoy leadership, naturally. But I agree with Metamorphosis, only if i'm the best suited for the job. Which pretty much is whenever something needs to be done quickly. I know for a fact that people dislike when I get brutally honest and effective, so I keep those parts reigned in tightly most of the time and operate more with suggestions and actually trying to listen to other people. Most of the time people just can't say anything intelligent and original... But I still nod and look like I care, then I completely ignore their input and find some way of saying that their idea sucks without hurting their precious feelings.

    The context in my case is usually group studies, with five other people. Two of them are quitters. They are always gone, so I can hardly type them; and when they're actually attending seminars and our study sessions, they are so terribly stupid and introverted in combination that I can't get a read on their types. I get ISxx from one and INxx from the other.

    Me, ENTJ.
    ENFP man, 25. Christian guy. Computer nerd. Cool to have discussions with regarding religion.
    INTP girl/woman something. 20. From Colombia. Pretty cool. Adores me for some reason. Makes good points every now and then, when she decides to share
    ENTP guy, 32. We generally agree upon everything. We play chess during lectures on our laptops. Has original ideas, and combined with my original thoughts, it's fucking great. Best symbiosis EVARR.
    INxx - stupid. The lights are on but no-one's home.
    ISxx - retarded conservative idiot. Good thing she's never there.

    What's great about this group is that the command structure is sublime, but it is pretty clear. There's no bullshit and everyone contributes to our work. I'm usually pulling about 40% of the load, though. But I wouldn't have it any other way; I write pretty good in swedish, and I have a lot to say regarding pedagogy, law and leadership.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  10. #50
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    All my friends are P, so if there's a group thing going down, I tend to be the organizer. It feels funny.
    You really have to invite me one day to one of your group parties, I bet they are nasty and wet
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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