User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 21

Thread: Talents

  1. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Summary:

    Success -> ability + effort
    Talent has basis in brain. Most see it as a static property, hard-wired by genes, activated at birth. Reality ability takes time to develop.

    "The genes don't act all at once, but can take years to unfold."

    "One trait, like gregariousness, can develop early on while another trait, like speech production, may lag -- which can be awkward until the two come into harmony."

    "Complex trait like intelligence is not only partly determined by many interacting genes, it changes across the lifespan as some genes are automatically turned on and some turned off. The most appreciated abilities in society, such as creativity and leadership, rarely fully present themselves early on... Prodigies are notably more common in some domains than others. Chess, musical performance, and pure mathematics are full of prodigies because they draw on relatively delimited knowledge and skills."

    "Achievements that require complex abilities like creativity or leadership, which comprise many different traits and thus the alignment of many different genes, are years in the making... The more complex a trait, the more ways a person can become a late bloomer for that trait."

    The rest of the articles are examples of late bloomers.
    Interesting stuff. So sometimes a weak point in a group of skills could develop and release a talent.

    I'll have to see if I can get my hands on that magazine.

  2. #12
    Dali
    Guest

    Default

    My talent is music. I know it. But it shall likely never be fully realised due to some factors I dont want to get into here. I guess you somehow always know whether you act on it or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    "One trait, like gregariousness, can develop early on while another trait, like speech production, may lag -- which can be awkward until the two come into harmony."
    For some reason, that made me LOL.

  3. #13
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    The thread on talents and hard work got me thinking again.
    If talent and hard work are the main factors in a successful career and a creative life and it is said to take 10,000 hours to truly become proficient in any area.

    How will we know where our true talents lie before putting in the hours?
    Talent is the underside of disability.
    Work has nothing to do with it.
    Ambition is not about disability.

    It is about ability.

  4. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Talent is the underside of disability.
    Work has nothing to do with it.
    Ambition is not about disability.

    It is about ability.
    Where there is no work there is no ability.
    Mozart's fingers bent from practice.

    You can see your talents as an iceberg,
    The tip is what you see, the thing you like to do.
    Which one has the depth?

  5. #15
    Senior Member Alpha Prime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    XXXX
    Enneagram
    XXXX
    Socionics
    XXXX
    Posts
    250

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    The thread on talents and hard work got me thinking again.
    If talent and hard work are the main factors in a successful career and a creative life and it is said to take 10,000 hours to truly become proficient in any area.

    How will we know where our true talents lie before putting in the hours?
    After "10 000 hours" of constructive effort, initial "talent" doesn't matter, at all.
    Hit like a heavyweight, breathe deep, meditate
    Make the whole crowd get loud, make 'em levitate
    I ride through my city like a presidential candidate
    L-A-X, Phantom double-R, and accelerate

  6. #16
    Arcesso pulli gingerios! Eldanen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    697

    Default

    Talent doesn't exist, I don't think. Talent is a mystical word and idea that arises from effort that is done "under the hood" of the mind, so to speak. Intuition is just skill that's been practiced to the point of subconscious effort. Don't worry about what you're "talented" at. Be more concerned with what you're truly interested in. Whatever you have the drive to learn, you will.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Hirsch63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    MBTI
    IS??
    Socionics
    InFj
    Posts
    525

    Default

    Through the 1990s I taught quite a few traditional woodworking classes...for adults, mostly. Some of these classes were "hands on" and I was able to observe a group of motivated interested adults attempt sometimes tricky manual tasks that they were not very familiar with (if at all).

    I made an effort to provide each student with good quality tools and similar wood to work. They all recieved the same instruction and had the same benchs to work at. Out of the hundreds of people I instructed 99% could perform the tasks acceptably by the end of class. I think that I only ever had one guy who just could not wrap his ability around the process. Occasionally I would have students who would just blow it away...As if it were an inherent gift....first attempt: perfect.

    What I witnessed was that for a given task most motivated people will become competent. Some, will (for reasons that can be debated) display an almost supernatural grasp of the process, given their experience. And while I recognized and applauded their ability, I could not in good conscious reccommend a careeer in (traditional) woodworking to anybody who wants to make a reliable living.
    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings...Steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you a king

  8. #18
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    what you are most talented at, you will enjoy the most. So do what you enjoy the most, and your best talents will tag along.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

    Enneagram: 9w1

  9. #19
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    If talent and hard work are the main factors in a successful career and a creative life and it is said to take 10,000 hours to truly become proficient in any area.
    I hate this saying...

    This translates to working full time for 5 years in order to be proficient. It's simply not true, in the context that it is told. Everything depends on the degree of efficiency and the mechanistic difficulty of what is trying to be learnt.

    The single most important factors in efficiency is your own person efficiency - aka passion. This is the amount of energy you are going to spend on something, which translates to how much you do when trying to become proficient. It's what you are going to be thinking about in the shower. It's what you are going to find people to talk about, what you are going to explore and so forth.

    The reason why it is so important is because all proficiencies have a long thread of dependencies. A career doesn't take "5 years" to become proficient at, it takes your entire life. All that time your parents spent teaching you to talk? All that time in school, learning to relate to people in sports(/whatever)... even the time you spend creating posts on TypoC. Everything works it way into your proficiencies, but all of them are going to be built around what you are passionate about. There is no line that can be drawn, really. Going to school to "become something" isn't efficient - at all. There is very little difference between someone who has gone to school and someone who has learnt on the job, and the difference tends to favor those that learnt on the job, assuming equal ability (see: school as economic signal).

    The only things that I can think of that would specifically take 5 years to learn, and that's assuming you have the background and the passion, would be masters/phd level mathematic specialties (and related sciences). Maybe some other disciplines, as talent fluctuates. I can't think of almost anything else, job or academic, that would require five years of dedicated learning to be proficient.

    And that's simply due to the mechanistic difficulties - it's likely one of the hardest things to learn, due to the broadness and depth of the subjects, and is demanding in terms of talent. And it goes way beyond being "proficient" in the "go get a job and be good at it" sense.

    How will we know where our true talents lie before putting in the hours?
    Talent is only needed if you want to be on top, or at least in the top 10% of a narrow discipline. That is, top 10% of already proficient people. Normally it is a waste of time - a marginal increase. People who are there have a passion and a talent, and unfortunately not everyone is created "equally". That is, you should be doing it *for* you, not to optimize your natural abilities. Trust your talents and passions to be somewhat aligned.

    The simple reality is that humans are extremely malleable. Our competency level far exceeds something like 90% of the skills we will learn. Most of us, with 10,000 hours of dedicated time (assuming basic dependencies), could learn the fundamentals of high level math, probably the single most "restrictive" topic in terms of natural talent. You can teach the worst dancers to be professionals in that time. Maybe not world champions, but certainly "proficient" enough to teach, etc. This could go on and on... 10,000 hours of dedicated time puts natural talent way down on the tier. Slightly more talent is not even close to the effectiveness of slightly more passion.

    I always think of cooking as a good example of this. Most of the time, the effective time spent cooking is less than 15 minutes a day - simply because 90% of the time, it isn't "learning", but redoing the same actions. But even if we boost that up to an hour a day, every day, 10,000 hours would take ~30 years to be competent. That can only be true if it is a serious chore, repetitive and boring. Add a slight amount of passion - as in, trying new recipes, attending a few classes - and it won't take more than 500 hours to be proficient. And likely far less (I would say for me to go from "can't cook toast" to half way proficient to be a couple hundred hours). At the professional level, maybe 2000 hours. And again, add a little passion, and that is vastly reduced... likely because you have dependencies (help your mom cook before? Spent time in a kitchen? What what happens in the kitchen when you go out to eat? watch cooking shows?)

    If you ever doubt this, think of quitting your job - and then going and doing one task for the same amount of time. Every day, hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year.

    Are some people going to have an easier time? Yes. And quite often the people that will are either specialists, like you would be if you made it a full time job, or generalists. In the first case, you are simply behind the curve or slightly less efficient (time spent or effective time), and in the second, they have higher levels of dependencies built up.

    The point is that you can do almost anything, if you chose to do it. It is extremely unlikely that there is a talent limit that will prevent you from being proficient in nearly any discipline. Proficient, that is, not "the best". It's logical that you cannot be "the best", because only one person can. What you can be is proficient, and more than most of the population, simply because no one can be proficient in everything. You aren't going to be crowded out, ever, if you have passion and time.

    It's only when you are talking about competing, or some other "top winners take all", that the mixture of pure talent and dedication matters.

  10. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    479

    Default

    When they say 10,000 hours Tallulah, they don't mean being a famous superstar or anything just with a mere 10k hours of practice and experience. The article about the 10,000 hours is a rough estimate for someone to become an "expert" in that field. Not necessarily a professional.
    I've played tennis for 15-16 years now, and have put into well over 10,000 hours of serious training time, and I am not even close to ever becoming a Roger Federer or Rafael Nadal. But I'd consider myself to be an expert. After all the training, I know the game inside and out, I know what to look for when analyzing opponents, I know what shot will give me the highest percentage to win, I know how to set up and trap my opponent into playing my game etc.
    Essentially after your 10,000 hours are put into a field, if you really wish to become successful and move into one of the greats in the world, in any field I'd say, talent comes into play. When people combine hard work AND their talent, they take everything to a far higher level. With talent, everything comes natural and a person will learn things and do things much quicker than someone who is just hard working. Hands down.

    Eldanen - If talent doesn't exist, how do you describe someone that can just try out a new hobbies in life and be good at it within the first few tries? If someone is showing natural skills for something right off the bat, what is causing it? Talent? I'd think so.

Similar Threads

  1. [NF] talents, hardwork, and luck : which matters the most?
    By niki in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 03-28-2010, 04:23 PM
  2. Talent Shows & Girl Acts
    By Totenkindly in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-11-2009, 09:50 PM
  3. [Other] "Don't Waste Your Talents"
    By niki in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-07-2009, 06:13 AM
  4. [MBTItm] which one is more important: passion or talent?
    By niki in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 01-20-2009, 12:16 AM
  5. Balloon art for the talented
    By sdalek in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-15-2007, 10:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO